Wiring plan for control panel.

[Anglian]

Good evening. I am planning out a control area for my new analogue layout. It is all LGB-based. I have a 5amp 50110 AC transformer a 5 amp Linesman's hut and LGB point and section switch boxes. The transformer will stay indoors with the remainder outside under some form of cover, probably on top of a wall pillar, the railway being at waist height for it's whole length, 70 feet. I have hopefully attached a rough working diagram of the wiring plan for your hopefully kind comments.
Best wishes,
Trevor

 

[dutchelm]

If the transformer is indoors you only require one black and one white connection. They are connected together inside the transformer. Just run 2 cores, decent size to minimise volt drop, & split them on the control panel.

 

[Anglian]

If the transformer is indoors you only require one black and one white connection. They are connected together inside the transformer. Just run 2 cores, decent size to minimise volt drop, & split them on the control panel.

Many thanks Mike for the speedy reply.
Trevor

 

[phils2um]

Hi Trevor,

This doesn't specifically answer your question but I thought I would throw it out there for your consideration. What caused me to go to DCC (with a Märklin CS3 in my case) was the thought of running all those wires outside. Even though six of the LGB locomotives I had when starting my outdoor "empire" five years ago were old analog models, switching them over was not too expensive except when sound was involved. (Has it already been five years?!) If your locos are already digitally equipped it's all the more reason to start out with DCC. I know the relegating your existing analog control equipment seems a wasted expense but you will probably be a lot happier in the long run if you make the switch to DCC at the beginning. I still have two 5006/5007 transformer/controller combos, another 5006/110 transformer and some 5075 and 5080 control boxes that I had purchased in the past. I use the 5006/110 and one 5007 as a variable voltage DC supply for testing.

Phil S

 

[Anglian]

Hi. Thanks Phil. Yes, I have read plenty about the whole DCC / Battery / Live steam debate and for the future who knows? There is an appeal with regard to the underlying simplicity of DCC and I may well go that way in the future. However at the moment I am so close to having my first garden railway operating with the equipment I have acquired that I intend persisting with it at least for the time being. My loco roster comprises two 2020 Stainz, a Schoema diesel with the circular sticker with six dots, a Spreewald (1988) and Harz 22810 each of which I think is from 1988 with a shiny D sticker and a small yellow diesel 20900.1. This means, I think given my limited knowledge, that each would need a different
method to bring them up to full DCC operation. Again this will be for future discussion through the relevant forum.
I will, no doubt, be following this up at some point in the future.
Again, thanks for your advice,
Trevor

to bring them

 

[Zerogee]

Your Spreewald and yellow KoF diesel will already be DCC chipped; the orange Schoema is ready for a simple plug-in decoder installation; the two green Stainzes would need some conversion work (the exact degree depending on their age), but still pretty easy to do. Not sure about the Harz 6001, again it will depend on the vintage.... the Spreewald will be much newer than 1988, if it's got the silver DCC sticker then it's likely to be no older than 1999/2000, possibly newer. Look for the round gold sticker, the first and last digits of the number on it are the year of manufacture. The yellow KoF is out of an MTS starter set, so that is definitely chipped....
Nothing wrong with getting it all up and running under analogue power, but I would agree that going DCC eventually will give you so much more operating fun!

Jon.

 

[Anglian]

Thanks Jon,
You're right about the Spreewald, it's 2002 and the Harz, 2004. I don't know where the 1998 came from. I can't date either Stainz.
Trevor

 

[PhilP]

I would guess '1998' is moulded into the bottom cover of the motor-blocks?

 

[Zerogee]

I would guess '1998' is moulded into the bottom cover of the motor-blocks?

......and assuming that is the case, it will be the copyright date for that particular design - when that loco model (or at least the first one that used that particular gearbox moulding) first entered production.

Jon.

 

[Anglian]

Thanks both. That clears that up.
Trevor

 

[Anglian]

Hi out there. I have added this as it follows on from the last few posts. What would be a ballpark figure for a basic, workable DCC setup for the above layout, based on the resources listed above?
Trevor

 

[Gizzy]

Basic DCC system, say a 2nd hand MTS 2, would be around £300. Point decoders would be around £50 for a 4 channel decoder which can operate up to 4 pairs of points (if you have crossovers like in your photo)....

 

[Anglian]

Thanks very much Gizzy. But now, 'Oh dear' A bit of procrastination is on the horizon. That was less than I thought. I presume that adding on the cost of modifying the engines wouldn't be too exorbitant. It might well be that I get some mileage out of this set-up to get some value out of what I've bought, but change over next year.
Trevor

 

[Gizzy]

Thanks very much Gizzy. But now, 'Oh dear' A bit of procrastination is on the horizon. That was less than I thought. I presume that adding on the cost of modifying the engines wouldn't be too exorbitant. It might well be that I get some mileage out of this set-up to get some value out of what I've bought, but change over next year.
Trevor

Depends on the decoder you fit, and the size of loco. The Shoema could be fitted with a smaller decoder such as a Massoth M for around £40-50. The same for the Stainz. The Harz 6001 would need a Massoth L decoder at £60-70. Sound again will add to the cost, an LS decoder for the Harz will be about £140....

 

[Anglian]

Thanks again for your time. This could be a short-lived analogue set-up. 1 see a new MTS III plus handheld can be bought for £350. I have some new things I could sell to offset the cost.
Your help is appreciated, more could well be required as I try to learn.
Trevor

 

[curtis]

All, this is one of those threads that has drifted (a bit) but is incredibly valuable, so thank you. I think I was in a similar position to Anglican in that I have all analogue stuff (x6 locos - all LGB bar 1 piko 0-6-0) and was always put off by the potential price of going digital. However, the figures posted in this thread are very tempting. My question, with the MTS systems (II or III), how long are they feasibly going to be supported as I was under the impression that LGB had discontinued them.

 

[dunnyrail]

Thanks very much Gizzy. But now, 'Oh dear' A bit of procrastination is on the horizon. That was less than I thought. I presume that adding on the cost of modifying the engines wouldn't be too exorbitant. It might well be that I get some mileage out of this set-up to get some value out of what I've bought, but change over next year.
Trevor

Nothing you have proposed will be upset by the change to DCC when or if you do it. You can even keep the Analogue Operation of Points should you wish to. Just keep the Circuit for Points separated with the Transformer as you now have and the DC part fed from any DCC System you use. Just remember to leave all of the Isolating Sections on when using DCC. You could use a short Siding to keep a Non DCC Locomotive on that would run on ‘0’ if you wanted to. Though it is frowned upon to use an Analogue Loco this way. The Motor tends to Whistle.

 

[Zerogee]

All, this is one of those threads that has drifted (a bit) but is incredibly valuable, so thank you. I think I was in a similar position to Anglican in that I have all analogue stuff (x6 locos - all LGB bar 1 piko 0-6-0) and was always put off by the potential price of going digital. However, the figures posted in this thread are very tempting. My question, with the MTS systems (II or III), how long are they feasibly going to be supported as I was under the impression that LGB had discontinued them.

Yes, both MTS II and III are now obsolescent systems that are no longer made by LGB - BUT they will still work just fine for most purposes, and many, many people are still using them. As such, provided you can get a complete package as a second-hand purchase (power supply, central station plus one or more handsets with or without a wireless receiver module) then it will still give you a good few years of use at a very reasonable price. I would avoid the early "serial" MTS II systems, but a later "parallel" one is just fine (just make sure that ALL components of the system are parallel-enabled, either with a "P" suffix on their part numbers or a little black and white "P" sticker on the item); an MTS III setup is an even better option, as it allows the use of a Massoth Navigator as an alternative to the LGB handsets.

Provided you get a setup that is fully working and in good condition, it will provide a perfectly serviceable and relatively low cost entry into large scale DCC. You can even still buy brand-new "new-old-stock" MTS sets from the likes of Modell-Land in Germany.

Jon.

 

[Anglian]

I really like the fact that I can still use the analogue equipment I already have. it might be the Scrooge in me but it makes sense not to waste equipment or time.
Thanks so much.
Trevor

 

[Anglian]

Hi all. With reference to all the above.
Up to now I making slow progress with the wiring with some sections and some points wired in. HOWEVER, on the domestic front, Mrs Trevor has no objection to capital being allocated to switching (!) over to DCC having either a full understanding my description of the benefits of the system or merely a wish to shut me up. She does however like seeing the trains running along through the kitchen window.
Now, the real point is that things now need to move relatively swiftly to keep the good will going. I can send away for an MTS3 and handheld but then...? I am fairly isolated here with no model railway shops or local expertise that I know of with regard to what I get next to get up and running. This is where the forum comes in. Am I better going on to the digital site now for advice re fitting out the locos? Also suggestions where I can acquire decoders etc from please.
This is entirely new, so patience is required. I am not handless diy-wise but I don't want to start something I can't finish.
Thanks for your time. You have convinced me about the benefits so the next step is to see them fairly asap.
Best wishes,
Trevor