Tram Battery Powered Control

[DafyddElvy]

I hope this is the correct place for this query.

I have some Bachmann trams which I am converting to battery power. Up to now control has been by the use of a locoremote unit, the locoremote is a great concept, works just the way I want to, but for me it's a little bulky and not always easy to hide under a tram.

One of the excellent things with the locoremote system is control can be seamlessly passed from one person to another without the need to pair up hand control devices.

My query is, does anyone supply a transmitter / receiver equivalent where the emphasis must allow two operators to seamlessly change who is controlling a vehicle.
The main reason for considering a r/c type arrangement is mainly down to the size of a receiver, any thoughts folks?

 

[JimmyB]

My Rx sits inside, between the seats, I am using the Revolution

Bachmann Tram Battery Conversion

In June 2021 I attended the National Garden Railway Show in Peterborough, and as an impulse buy, I bought a Bachmann Tram, no box and ...

tumble-down-falls.blogspot.com

 

[dunnyrail]

I hope this is the correct place for this query.

I have some Bachmann trams which I am converting to battery power. Up to now control has been by the use of a locoremote unit, the locoremote is a great concept, works just the way I want to, but for me it's a little bulky and not always easy to hide under a tram.

One of the excellent things with the locoremote system is control can be seamlessly passed from one person to another without the need to pair up hand control devices.

My query is, does anyone supply a transmitter / receiver equivalent where the emphasis must allow two operators to seamlessly change who is controlling a vehicle.
The main reason for considering a r/c type arrangement is mainly down to the size of a receiver, any thoughts folks?

I am using mostly FOSWORKS and Deltang.

But have 3 crest systems, these have the ability to change to loco using the hand set. Quite possibly may work if one handset broke the link to the loco and then picked it up using a different handset. Will give it a try.

The other option may work with Fosworks Selecta. More than one handset bound to the same RX may work. Similar process one switches handset to a different loco then the other takes it over. I would ring Steve at FOSWORKS to ask Re this possibility.

 

[Melbournesparks]

Seems like this could potentially be achieved using micron 2.4ghz stuff. If both operators had transmitters with the 12 position selection switch and the tram was set to position 1 on operator 1's transmitter and position 2 on operator 2's transmitter then operator one moving their selection switch to a position other than 1 at the same time operator 2 moves theirs to position 2 would transfer control to operator 2. I haven't tested that though and there may well be a more straightforward way of doing it.

 

[JimmyB]

Seems like this could potentially be achieved using micron 2.4ghz stuff. If both operators had transmitters with the 12 position selection switch and the tram was set to position 1 on operator 1's transmitter and position 2 on operator 2's transmitter then operator one moving their selection switch to a position other than 1 at the same time operator 2 moves theirs to position 2 would transfer control to operator 2. I haven't tested that though and there may well be a more straightforward way of doing it.

I see where you are going, but if both operators use the SAME selecta number for each tram, op1 is operating tram1 at selecta 1 and op 2 is operating tram 2 at selecta 2, if op 1 move to selecta 3, his tram will continue to run, then op 2 move to selecta 1 he will then have control, and op1 can move to selecta 2 and control tram 2.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[dunnyrail]

Ok so just tested on my Crest Revolution Train Engineer and works just fine.

Below left Tx you can see OBB-ROD-8 has link at bottom of the screen. Right handset no link as BOX VT007 not switched on. Though this is a DCC one the non DCC ones are the same size.

Using the T>> I have now switched to the right handset, note how the LinkOK NoLink has changed. This works seamlessly while the loco is running.
Hope this shows what you are asking.

Below is the TE Rx, size 60x40 height 30 all mm. Might be a bit big for what you need but certainly very usable and will certainly do most of what you want I believe.

 

[PhilP]

Regarding Deltang and Micron equipment:
This will not work. There is a 'Tx change' function within the Deltang control-set, but it is not fully reliable.

Just using two Transmitters, whether the same Selecta position or not, will not work. - The 24-bit GUID will be different on each transmitter.

Once the whole transmitter-module design is moved 'in-house' to Andy (Micron) then this will be written into the code.

PhilP

 

[Melbournesparks]

Regarding Deltang and Micron equipment:
This will not work. There is a 'Tx change' function within the Deltang control-set, but it is not fully reliable.

Just using two Transmitters, whether the same Selecta position or not, will not work. - The 24-bit GUID will be different on each transmitter.

Once the whole transmitter-module design is moved 'in-house' to Andy (Micron) then this will be written into the code.

PhilP

Good to know, I didn't have the ability to test it since none of my transmitters have the rotary selection switch. Usually we achieve the transfer of control just by passing the transmitter to a different operator, but I assume this is for a very specific use case where that isn't possible!

 

[JimmyB]

Ok so just tested on my Crest Revolution Train Engineer and works just fine.

Below left Tx you can see OBB-ROD-8 has link at bottom of the screen. Right handset no link as BOX VT007 not switched on. Though this is a DCC one the non DCC ones are the same size.
View attachment 303595
Using the T>> I have now switched to the right handset, note how the LinkOK NoLink has changed. This works seamlessly while the loco is running.View attachment 303594
Hope this shows what you are asking.

Below is the TE Rx, size 60x40 height 30 all mm. Might be a bit big for what you need but certainly very usable and will certainly do most of what you want I believe.
View attachment 303593

This is the Crest Revolution Rx I have used:

Revolution Micro Receiver w/Sound - REVOLUTION - Products

<ul> <li>The 2.4 GHz radio system is bidirectional. <span style="text-align: center;">That means that the transmitter not only sends commands to the locomotive but it also gets feedback data from the receiver in the locomotive.</span></li> <l

www.revoelectronics.com

Dimensions:2.25"(57mmm) x 0.9"(23mm)x 0.4"(9mm)

 

[dunnyrail]

This is the Crest Revolution Rx I have used:

Revolution Micro Receiver w/Sound - REVOLUTION - Products

<ul> <li>The 2.4 GHz radio system is bidirectional. <span style="text-align: center;">That means that the transmitter not only sends commands to the locomotive but it also gets feedback data from the receiver in the locomotive.</span></li> <l

www.revoelectronics.com

Dimensions:2.25"(57mmm) x 0.9"(23mm)x 0.4"(9mm)

Oh ok looks like they have shrunk the size which would likely work better in David‘s Tram. Oh yes of course that is the newer sound one, my original non-sound ones were much the size and shape of the DCC ones. Things change! But the mechanics of operation will be much the same.

 

[DafyddElvy]

Regarding Deltang and Micron equipment:
This will not work. There is a 'Tx change' function within the Deltang control-set, but it is not fully reliable.

Just using two Transmitters, whether the same Selecta position or not, will not work. - The 24-bit GUID will be different on each transmitter.

Once the whole transmitter-module design is moved 'in-house' to Andy (Micron) then this will be written into the code.

PhilP

PhilP any idea when Andy might write the required code, aye I have balls of string outside too, but just thought I'd ask in case their is a cunning plan

 

[PhilP]

There is probably a limited supply of the Deltang core transmitter modules..

I have no knowledge of when this supply will be exhausted, but I would hope that there may be a years supply left?
I would expect the replacement to be available by then..

I do know that it will require a Micron-designed hardware transmitter (as well as the software). It might well also require a Micron-hardware design of receiver as well.

Development has been a minefield, with changes to chip-sets dictated by what is available.
These delayed the MR603, and there even had to be changes between the 'a' and 'b' variants of the MR603.

Probably said too much already, but there is work being done on future products..

PhilP.

 

[DafyddElvy]

There is probably a limited supply of the Deltang core transmitter modules..

I have no knowledge of when this supply will be exhausted, but I would hope that there may be a years supply left?
I would expect the replacement to be available by then..

I do know that it will require a Micron-designed hardware transmitter (as well as the software). It might well also require a Micron-hardware design of receiver as well.

Development has been a minefield, with changes to chip-sets dictated by what is available.
These delayed the MR603, and there even had to be changes between the 'a' and 'b' variants of the MR603.

Probably said too much already, but there is work being done on future products..

PhilP.

Always nice to know things are being progressed.
You haven't really said much at all except plans continue, which I for one look forward to hearing about.

 

[dunnyrail]

I expect some if the delay could be due to the well published global chip shortage. Our model requirements are likely to be at the bottom of a very long queue.

 

[JimmyB]

I expect some if the delay could be due to the well published global chip shortage. Our model requirements are likely to be at the bottom of a very long queue.

Apparently that is now over, and there is now a glut, a bit like the drop in petrol prices, scaremonger when things get bad, but ignore it when things get better.

 

[PhilP]

Apparently that is now over, and there is now a glut, a bit like the drop in petrol prices, scaremonger when things get bad, but ignore it when things get better.

A little like 'breathing' on the motorway, the supply is oscillating (sometimes many, sometimes few) so availability is still a little hit or miss..

The likes of Andy, and myself, are pretty low on the supply food-chain, so we suffer this more.

You can get (almost) anything, but you may well have to hunt for it, and it may not be available in the quantities you want, and the prices are very unstable.

Some suppliers are still quoting two-year lead-times one week, and massive (but pricey) availability the next.

PhilP

 

[dunnyrail]

Had a lovely day at SwindonShow yesterday little disappointed at the lack if layouts but did enjoy chatting to the guys and gal on what I think was Lea Siding. A point outstanding re my visit.

I have been having problems with my Ariisto Revolution Radio Controllers. Basically I have 3, 2 older ones with the solid plastic keys and a newer one with the spongy type keys. The newer one would only ever work the loco it was linked to and not my other 3 locomotives. I had long thought that this was just a difference in the manufacturing date, a bit like you cant use older Microsoft Software on newer kit. I have raised this issue before elsewhere - anyones guess where?
I was told that my problem could be due to frequency. Well I checked that and that was not the issue all 3 controllers being on frequency 16. However there was a difference in the Group ID. My earlier handsets had 4082, the newer one 3681. Reading the instructions (yes I know that is cheating) I noted that this is a way to get more than 50 locomotives, I doubt that many of us have that many battery locomotives? But it pointed the way to my problem.

So my 3rd handset was revised to Group ID 4082 and now all the locomotives can be driven by the itinerant handset, no relinking or anything required. So many thanks to the kind Gauge 3 guy that pointed me to a solution, not quite the one he had in mind but next to it in the manual.

FOR REFERENCE.
In my manual it is on Page 29, Radio Configure.
On the Handset Press ... Menu/Main Set Up, Scroll Down off the page to 6 Radio Configure

Happy Revolutioning.

 

[chris m01]

Regarding Deltang and Micron equipment:
This will not work. There is a 'Tx change' function within the Deltang control-set, but it is not fully reliable.

Just using two Transmitters, whether the same Selecta position or not, will not work. - The 24-bit GUID will be different on each transmitter.

Once the whole transmitter-module design is moved 'in-house' to Andy (Micron) then this will be written into the code.

PhilP

Hi Phil
Way back in the earlier days of Deltang wasn't there an option on the rx to enable them to bind to more than one tx?

 

[PhilP]

Hi Phil
Way back in the earlier days of Deltang wasn't there an option on the rx to enable them to bind to more than one tx?

Theoretically, yes.
As I understand it, the Bind table could hold several GUID's, but the Rx would spend about 30 seconds hunting for each one.
This meant it could take ages for the Rx to lock to a different transmitter.

Regarding the Micron receivers:

Along with menu functions, it is on the 'to do' list, but not near the top!

We now have indicators, brake lights, and hazards..
Other 'flash' options, will be enabled when serial programming is added..

We now have shuttle facilities, and at my request, the number of different wait-times has been increased. - Minutes added, rather than the limited short-stop times.

PhilP