Track making/making tracks: the good, the bad and the ugly, advice and thoughts wanted, explanation is giving(incl mistakes)

PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
26,944
2,785
Tamworth, Staffs.
Bien certainement! Ek vra om verskoning, ek praat geen Nederlands nie, maar ek praat baie Afrikaans. :(

I was going to say:

Mae hyn i gyd yn Roeg i mi ..

A allwn ni fynd yn ôl ar yr edefyn, os gwelwch yn dda?

But we seem to be there.. :)
 
justme igor

justme igor

Registered
17 Apr 2020
154
5
48
Netherlands Westwoud
Oke number 4 turnout...
There are people that are fed up with this ( i suggest to go to the coffee corner)and there are people that really want to give very valuable feedback!
I hope they will keep reacting so i can improve MY railway/railroad whatever......
Anyway some pictures for comments thought and ideas.....really every thought! to end with live steamers...
Thanks to those that share there first thought with me!, it is really appreciated.

After some improvements i got the turnout to work like i think it supposed to work?
No servo jet, sorry.

The frog need some work, i am NOT done with this one yet!
Overall I am pleased(not really pleased) by the end result.....
Scale one to ten....a 6 minor...
What can you tell me to improve, all thoughts are welcome, like always.....

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20200517_181954.jpg 20200517_182234.jpg


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ALL ideas thoughts comments are very welcome
The point form in the frog??? is oke with me.

Thanks in advance, with best regards Igor K
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
26,944
2,785
Tamworth, Staffs.
OK, you want some feedback..
BUT...... I have never made my own track!

Remind me what the 'goop' is you have used in the slot's in the ties?

Is the rail section a tight-ish fit without it. - If not, I fear either metal to goop, or wood to goop, may fail out in the garden?

Not sure about the large perpendicular slots where the rail crosses the tie at an angle. - I know why you have done it this way, but question if it will last?

Just my two Guilder's worth.. ;)

PhilP
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

Registered
8 Mar 2014
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San Diego
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So what track and wheel standards are you following?

And out of curiosity, what is the frog number of these?

The parts of the rail hanging down below the top of the ties will give you hell with dirt and ballast.

Greg
 
The Tinker

The Tinker

Every day I wake up is a good day
6 Feb 2014
296
47
Whangamata New Zealand
Another possibility is to drill thru the end of sleeper and thru the rail and glue a panel pin in the hole to provide a mechanical fastening . On the 16mm web site there is a good video about making turnouts Also worth looking at TOYMAN Television he makes his own track and turnouts Toy Man Television
 
P

Paradise

Registered
28 Jan 2010
998
247
That's a good start but now you need to refine it if you expect it to be trouble free. :nerd:

Your point 'toes' seem to be also ground on the inside. Not so easily done only on one side with a file to get a long taper for them to sit flush against the stock rails. A milling set-up would be best.
Better for your point rails near the throw bar slide on top of a smooth surface rather than the wood ties alone. They also need to be attached to the throw bar so they won't pull up on mishaps.
Your 'closure rails' that lead to the frog are not lined up with the point of the frog. The geometry of the 'crossing' is a bit weird all round and probably the worse aspect here.
Your wing and guard/check rails gap should be made according to back to back wheel standards of some sort. NMRA comes to mind.
Your 'wing rails' adjacent to the frog need to flare out to 'catch' the wheels better like your gaurd/check rails do on the stock rails. (They perhaps could do with more of a bend too)
I am also concerned with the casual slots relying on the 'goop' to keep all true. This is where welding the rails together (not for track power) is probably best as wood and 'goop' will age and move making tolerances go out.
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Here's a page on track and wheel standards.

I DO give an opinion of which of the 3 NMRA standards to follow, or you can follow G1MRA.


even though I wrote it, it is worth reading. :giggle:

Greg
 
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dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Nice job. time will tell how sustainable it is in a Garden environment 24/7/365. With the metal connector at the Tie Rod I am assuming that you will be live steam or battery power. Have you thought about how to operate the points. Hand Lever, Electric Motor or Air Motor bay far the most expensive but easiest to set up.
 
justme igor

justme igor

Registered
17 Apr 2020
154
5
48
Netherlands Westwoud
Thanks to all for all your feedback.
Is the rail section a tight-ish fit without it. - If not, I fear either metal to goop, or wood to goop, may fail out in the garden?

Not sure about the large perpendicular slots where the rail crosses the tie at an angle. - I know why you have done it this way, but question if it will last?
The "goop" i am using is "polimax high tack", (not the cheapest stuff, at work sometimes a tube "disappear")a putty that will stiffen up and not rot, probably the wood (for sure) and the alu is sooner gone than the putty.
The wood for now is oak, i got fir enough for firewood, but must do a lot of work with it to get some sleepers/ties out of it.
Trunks of 50 cm in diameter.

Yes well: those slots i must spend some more time on drawing the track on the tie/sleeper and must put the chop saw in the right angle....lazy i know.
Stil experimenting btw.
Planning to by a precision saw and make a mold for the ties/sleepers so i can route them out very precise.

I read some posts on this and some other forums, it seems that fir is ruling.
Someone here (gregh?) had them for 15 year in operation....Must read it again, he made some good tracks.

OK, you want some feedback..
BUT...... I have never made my own track!
No problem, i did not do it also, but a thought, even far away, could be a solution!

So what track and wheel standards are you following?

And out of curiosity, what is the frog number of these?

The parts of the rail hanging down below the top of the ties will give you hell with dirt and ballast.
Standardts? Still must dive into it, i thought it was pretty straightforward....like always....nope.
My frog number? i really want to tell you but i don't have a clue(yet)....all i know is the minimum radius i would like to have for the big locos is 3 meters and 3,20.
I would like to obtain a doubletrack thru the whole garden only for them, with some turn outs to smaller radius curves and thus railway sections: extra smaller locos and track.

This turnout has a radius of 3 meters, so there is a LOT more.

On the parts that would "give me hell" i thought i tackled it, leave some room. Ballast is out of the question btw, i like this view very much, probably i am going to put it on top of some ballast, just like Stavern, we will see.
For dirt build up, i have some ideas, i would like to hear yours.

Another possibility is to drill thru the end of sleeper and thru the rail and glue a panel pin in the hole to provide a mechanical fastening . On the 16mm web site there is a good video about making turnouts Also worth looking at TOYMAN Television he makes his own track and turnouts Toy Man Television

I was looking into that, was looking good. i took some wire for use of springs(some special metal or something?), it worked great, but i would like to have it servo operated, my gw basic programming skills are not going to save me now :disappointed:.

Toyman, great guy, quick respons, very good (building) vids!

That's a good start but now you need to refine it if you expect it to be trouble free. :nerd:

Your point 'toes' seem to be also ground on the inside. Not so easily done only on one side with a file to get a long taper for them to sit flush against the stock rails. A milling set-up would be best.
Better for your point rails near the throw bar slide on top of a smooth surface rather than the wood ties alone. They also need to be attached to the throw bar so they won't pull up on mishaps.
Your 'closure rails' that lead to the frog are not lined up with the point of the frog. The geometry of the 'crossing' is a bit weird all round and probably the worse aspect here.

Your wing and guard/check rails gap should be made according to back to back wheel standards of some sort. NMRA comes to mind.
Your 'wing rails' adjacent to the frog need to flare out to 'catch' the wheels better like your gaurd/check rails do on the stock rails. (They perhaps could do with more of a bend too)
I am also concerned with the casual slots relying on the 'goop' to keep all true. This is where welding the rails together (not for track power) is probably best as wood and 'goop' will age and move making tolerances go out.
YO WOW....easy Fonzie...don't over estimated my technical english on this subject......
This is the main reason why i keep coming back on this subject, i would like it trouble free!
There is so much about this, so much.....I will do my best to answer you in the right way. Bare with me please.
I dont use a file i use a belt sander, our lathe i sold in 2017 when my old man traded this time for eternity....
I sand both sides of the alu strip to get a better fit, to get that "arrow", for the stock rails(+/- 10cm) and to start the turn off line(+/- 3 cm)
Throw bar i must look up, google does not translate properly.
Frog i will definitely improve! was made and printed from templot, to british railway standards/examples.
NMRA i will definitely dive into that.
Wing rails..check, got it.
Welding alu i tried....need to practice a lot more than i have time for it or want it....probably inevitable?
Rails are pretty sturdy when i try to bend/flex them?(in the putty)
Those "casual"slots was my laziness, i explained that a couple of sentences ago, if you have any thoughts on that please share.

Greg Elmassian Greg Elmassian ,
I will take that dive on your website, any info is really appreciated, thanks.
Hmmmm also cigars eh....i like to make my own from my own grown havana and/or own grown monte calme(my all time favorite!)
Usually you have a good opinion, your homework is done usually very good.

Thanks for all the replays, got a lot of work to do to improve and learn, as you can see i am really doing something with your advice hints tips ect, it is really appreciated.
Btw al my measurement inside the rail are 44.9mm exactly, on the strait pieces, 45,1 on the curves, yes i can measure at 0.0005 inch, thanks to a other hobby!
One millimeter is big, many thanks for the imperial system.

Best Igor K
 
Last edited:
justme igor

justme igor

Registered
17 Apr 2020
154
5
48
Netherlands Westwoud
Nice job. time will tell how sustainable it is in a Garden environment 24/7/365. With the metal connector at the Tie Rod I am assuming that you will be live steam or battery power. Have you thought about how to operate the points. Hand Lever, Electric Motor or Air Motor bay far the most expensive but easiest to set up.
Thank you, but the job does not come easy ready.
Yes your assumptions are right, live steam and battery operated.
I would like to operate mu points at electric motor, servo 27mc to 430mc or something...stil must go into that, i would like to run my locos at a rc, i bought some chinesum rc stuff that works up til now.
Deltang has nice equipment too, probably a lot better(fine tuned from the same supplier?).
Air motor bay? i will look into that one!
Thanks
 
Last edited:
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
18,217
3,738
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Thank you, but does not come easy.
Yes your assumptions are right, live steam and battery operated.
I would like to operate mu points at electric motor, servo 27mc to 430mc or something...stil must go into that, i would like to run my locos at a rc, i bought some chinesum rc stuff that works up til now.
Deltang has nice equipment too, probably a lot better(fine tuned from the same supplier?).
Air motor bay? i will look into that one!
Thanks
Sunset Valley in the US are about the only ones I know of these days.

 
P

phils2um

Phil S
11 Sep 2015
702
335
Ann Arbor, Michigan
I'm very impressed with the templates, experimentation and progress you've made in just a very short amount of time! I applaud your efforts!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:. Makes me feel like a piker for buying track rather than going for the full rr building experience.
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

Registered
8 Mar 2014
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663
San Diego
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Air motor = pneumatic... you can switch with simple toggles or solenoids.

I use them:

Greg
 
P

Paradise

Registered
28 Jan 2010
998
247
A few points. (pardon the pun).
Sorry, I couldn't find a simple image with ALL the parts of the switch clearly named except for a set track switch. Some terms are ambiguous depending on how you construct it.
I don't mean to sound critical but it is not much extra work to get right once you have the understanding and techniques sussed out. You seem keen to do a great job and I'm sure you can. :)
  • The frog number is relevant to the angle of the diverging route at the frog which you need to decide on first. The frog number is the ratio of the frog looking at it as a triangle and dividing the adjacent side by the opposite side.
  • A prototypical switch has a straight diverging route past the frog unlike set track switches which are designed to to fit where a standard curve would. Only the diverging route stock rail and closure rail (between the point toe and frog) is actually curved.
  • The point toes should only be ground on one side to keep the flange side of the rail aligned correctly. An angled guide jig set up on a bench grinder would work truer than a belt sander. Pre-curve the diverging closure rail first.
  • The wheel back to back specs and gaurd/check rail gap determines how true the opposite wheel goes through the frog crossing.
  • Keep the closure rails/wing rails perfectly aligned with the frog point and angle. Yours above are like farmer Brown's cows wandering all over the place. You don't want the wheels to drop into the gap or flanges smacking into the frog point.
  • Welding the rails together can come later but I think it will be better to do so because the integrity of the switches will be retained. When the inevitable shrinkage and deterioration comes, they will not all turn to unfix-able carp.
  • As a safety issue, the throw bar (the part that spreads/moves the points) should also retain the points from lifting up. Yours as designed are like flat laying sharpened spears that can be caught and bent up into an unsuspecting creature, humans and trains included.
  • Moving parts where ballast can sit will get fouled up especially after rain.
 
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Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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P

Paradise

Registered
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Thanks Greg. As you probably already know, it's actually a set track switch with a curve but that will explain things well enough. :)

Igor. I'm not sure how you are doing the assembly but make a bunch of gauge jigs. A strip of thin plywood with slots to slide over the rail to keep correct gauge and guard spacing in many places while the glue/goop sets.
Also a little bit of cement color added to the glue/goop to make a grungy color similar to ties/ballast. Red oxide with some black should do it. You won't easily get rid of all the spots of white by painting later. :)

The wheels may drop into the hole in the crossing especially on long switches/points. Most large scale train switches have 'flange bearing frogs'. The wheel flanges will ride on the bottom run between the rails in the crossing. That needs to be made the correct depth to suit the height of the flanges on the wheels you will be using. The bottom run also needs a gentle ramp at each end of the crossing. See below LGB R3 for reference although their mixture of brass and plastic obscures things a little. Perhaps do these later. I'll try to get a measurement of some switches/points I have for example. Obviously you want them to be made from a low wearing material.

LGB_R3_Frog_00_5822.JPG
 
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Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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A small difference of opinion, most large scale switches are NOT flange bearing.

Non flange bearing:
  • Aristo
  • USA Trains
  • AML
  • Piko
  • Sunset Valley
  • Switchcrafters
  • LLagas creek

Flange bearing
  • LGB
  • cheap LGB clones
there may be more... in more categories, but I would argue most are not flange bearing


The problem with flange bearing, is all your flanges need to be the same depth... so all LGB rolling stock and LGB switches ok...

Mix and match... not ok... and if the switch design relies on flange bearing for smooth operation, and you have smaller flanges, then not so good operation...

Greg
 
P

Paradise

Registered
28 Jan 2010
998
247
A small difference of opinion, most large scale switches are NOT flange bearing.

Non flange bearing:
  • Aristo
  • USA Trains
  • AML
  • Piko
  • Sunset Valley
  • Switchcrafters
  • LLagas creek

Flange bearing
  • LGB
  • cheap LGB clones
there may be more... in more categories, but I would argue most are not flange bearing
The problem with flange bearing, is all your flanges need to be the same depth... so all LGB rolling stock and LGB switches ok...
Mix and match... not ok... and if the switch design relies on flange bearing for smooth operation, and you have smaller flanges, then not so good operation...
Greg

OK Greg. Thanks for the clarification but is it considered only flange bearing if the flange is deeper than the entire flangeway in the crossing? That would depend on the wheel flange in question. The switches I have here are LGB, Peco, TainLine45, and Piko which have a ramp up to the bottom of the flangeway in the crossing. Some however are 3.5mm or even 4mm deep which I think is greater than even an LGB flange (3mm?). They will be flange bearing only when the wheel does drop into the crossing but at a limited amount. It's a bit of a fudgey detail as not all wheels are alike nor switches.