Problem with my lgb nicki franks

Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
16,514
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North Essex
That's not what I would call a standard multimeter, it's unusual to have AC amps that high. List price is about $200 here...............

Greg
My own digital multimeter, which is a Rapid own-branded one, a slightly older version of this one:
also has an AC Amps scale up to 10A, just like Adam's one - and is under twenty-five quid including VAT; that's why I described it as pretty much "standard" for modern digital meters, at least over here....

Jon.
 
Adam1989

Adam1989

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11 Mar 2018
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Calne wiltshire
So this morning I did some more testing when the loco cuts out there is no increase in amps draw. After I ran the mallet and the readings are almost identical.
 
John S

John S

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5 Nov 2017
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Exeter, Devon, UK
Out of curiosity I tried the suggestions mentioned in the previous post's with regard to measuring DCC Amps, fails to achieve any level of accuracy that is needed to determine fault finding.

Total failure as far as measuring stall current goes, and the time lag between readings is far too great to be of any meaningful use.

The low tech solution shown below does work, the MT multi meter is able to keep pace with the fluctuations of the readings and is close to the display shown on the Navigator.

For testing purposes, MT multi meter, KBL406 4A Bridge Rectifier, Massoth 1210Z along with a Navigator, LGB chassis, XL decoder, set to 14 speed steps and full power, Navigator reading 00.7A, MT meter reading 0.63A.


124471_0fc9a6d86c6597307666fd03a3a7aa87.png
 
John S

John S

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5 Nov 2017
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Exeter, Devon, UK
Back to the problem in hand, would appear from the OP, that motor control appears to be normal and possibly not the root cause for the shutdown.

Touch of detective work...turned up these.........


Digitising LGB 20261 Nicki-Frank-S steam tender loco - G Scale Central

Post 30, caught my eye, with particular reference to the details on the smoke unit, and using the info from this post, applied this to form the table below...

124489_c51884714daee3cac032558829502fdd.png


Using the Lenz LZV100 as a reference point, then recompiled the table below...

124491_6f904e205f44eff1250b502c660d97e0.png


Does seem to indicate that from the above tables, the CV55 setting and the A1 output may require further investigation....
 
Last edited:
Adam1989

Adam1989

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11 Mar 2018
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Calne wiltshire
Back to the problem in hand, would appear from the OP, that motor control appears to be normal and possibly not the root cause for the shutdown.

Touch of detective work...turned up these.........


Digitising LGB 20261 Nicki-Frank-S steam tender loco - G Scale Central

Post 30, caught my eye, with particular reference to the details on the smoke unit, and using the info from this post, applied this to form the table below...

View attachment 252663

Using the Lenz LZV100 as a reference point, then recompiled the table below...

View attachment 252664

Does seem to indicate that from the above tables, the CV55 setting and the A1 output may require further investigation....
That post of digitizing the franks is my loco I bought it from idialmarvel
 
Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

Registered
24 Oct 2009
9,330
24
N W Leicestershire
Back to the problem in hand, would appear from the OP, that motor control appears to be normal and possibly not the root cause for the shutdown.
Does seem to indicate that from the above tables, the CV55 setting and the A1 output may require further investigation....
Physically disconnect the smoke unit and test the loco again. Switching it off with the controller may be insufficient if the output is configured to a different function than expected or if running analogue when the output is configured to be permanently on in analogue mode.
 
Adam1989

Adam1989

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I think I will order a new decoder and see how I get on
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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8 Mar 2014
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www.elmassian.com
John S, when you put the FW bridge in line, you are running loco on DC, the amp draw is probably the same, but you are not running DCC any more, but full speed DC.

I suggested putting the amp meter BEFORE the command station, as long as you were feeding DC to the command station.

Greg
 
Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

Registered
24 Oct 2009
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N W Leicestershire
I think I will order a new decoder and see how I get on
Fair enough, but if the problem lies with the current draw of the smoke unit a different decoder probably won't make any difference
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

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13 Jul 2015
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Ascot
I think disconnecting the smoke unit would be worth trying, you may have inadvertently turned on the smoke unit (F7 I think from memory), although the current draw would be much higher if the smoke unit was on.
 
Adam1989

Adam1989

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So I have done more testing today with the smoke unit removed still the same.
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
16,514
61
North Essex
Adam, just wondering.... when the loco cuts out, have you felt the underside of the gearbox to see if it is unsually warm?
Not sure what it would necessarily indicate even if it was, but it was just a random thought!

Jon.
 
Adam1989

Adam1989

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I have already tried that I thought maybe it was starting to seize up or draw to much it might get hot but nothing, I ran it with the body off earlier to check if the decoder was hot when It stops as well but all was okay.:banghead:
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
22,773
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Tamworth, Staffs.
Off the wall thoughts.

Only this one loco? - So 'something' on this one.

Loco only? - So tender OK.

?? Is there any sort of inactivity timer function on this decoder ?? - I do not know of one. ??


Adam, Have you a 'spare' motor? - Could you connect the wires which go to the 'block motor pins to another motor? - Proves (original) motor is OK, if still a fault.
 
Adam1989

Adam1989

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11 Mar 2018
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Calne wiltshire
Off the wall thoughts.

Only this one loco? - So 'something' on this one.

Loco only? - So tender OK.

?? Is there any sort of inactivity timer function on this decoder ?? - I do not know of one. ??


Adam, Have you a 'spare' motor? - Could you connect the wires which go to the 'block motor pins to another motor? - Proves (original) motor is OK, if still a fault.
So only this loco only but the tender motor stops as well and all the lights go out
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
16,514
61
North Essex
So only this loco only but the tender motor stops as well and all the lights go out
I am assuming that the electrical connection between loco and tender is by way of a six (or more) way cable and plug, as it should be carrying power from the tender's pickups (2 wires), power TO the tender motor (2 wires) and finally power to the rear lamp on the tender (2 wires). If you could jury-rig a dummy plug to connect the pickup wires to the motor wires, the tender should then run solo on DC for testing purposes. In normal operation, of course the tender motor (and lamp) is being fed from the XL just as the loco's motor is, so it will stop if something is shutting down.

Jon.
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

Registered
13 Jul 2015
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I am assuming that the electrical connection between loco and tender is by way of a six (or more) way cable and plug, as it should be carrying power from the tender's pickups (2 wires), power TO the tender motor (2 wires) and finally power to the rear lamp on the tender (2 wires). If you could jury-rig a dummy plug to connect the pickup wires to the motor wires, the tender should then run solo on DC for testing purposes. In normal operation, of course the tender motor (and lamp) is being fed from the XL just as the loco's motor is, so it will stop if something is shutting down.

Jon.
No Jon it has 4 wires between the tender and loco, there is a function decoder in the tender to control the lights on the tender. (I know this as it was my loco before I sold it to Adam last year).

Adam, unfortunately I think you have got to the point where all avenues have been explored and no-one has come up with an explanation other than the XL decoder is likely the problem.
 
Zerogee

Zerogee

Clencher's Bogleman
25 Oct 2009
16,514
61
North Essex
No Jon it has 4 wires between the tender and loco, there is a function decoder in the tender to control the lights on the tender. (I know this as it was my loco before I sold it to Adam last year).
.............
Hmmm, that is very interesting, Dave, and might be in some way relevant to the problem - Adam, you mentioned that when the loco shuts down, the lights go off (though the sound doesn't, as it is a separate module) - does that definitely include the light on the rear of the tender?
I'm just thinking that if, as Dave says, the tender lamp is run off a completely separate decoder - then surely (if the problem is in the XL) that should be staying on in the same way as the sound system is.....?

I don't know how or if that actually helps at all, in fact it probably just complicates things even further.... :wondering:

Jon.