New Loco problem

Slawman

Slawman

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Hi All,

I am struggling with the setup of a new loco. It an LGB/Marklin 27802 NWE Steam Locomotive.

It will not run an a starting voltage under 15 (CV2) and then does not run smoothly.

I cannot get a feeling for whether the BEMF is functioning or not. There is no difference between the running characteristics when it is on or off (CV54 bit 2).

I note also that when running at low speeds it has no strength at all. I can stop it with light pressure from one finger (wheels stop turning). My other locos by comparison will spin their wheels at crawl speeds if stopped.

On top of that the reset does not seem to work (CV55). ie I set CV55 to a value of 55 and I would expect the decoder's listed default values to then be populated in the decoder however this does not change any values at all, they stay at the custom values I have entered.

The manual which came with this loco is terrible considering it has an XLS decoder on board. Here is the complete manual excerpt:

CV table No21

CV table No21

  • Media owner Slawman
  • Date added

Does anyone have any experience in working with the "dumbed-down" Marklin/Massoth OEM decoder? Is there any way to unlock this and re-program it to perform as an XLS?
 
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Thanks for your reply John. The gent who sold it to me said it was an XLS decoder but your advice makes more sense. I will see how I go with the Massoth tool treating it like an LGB 55021.
 
John, This is where it starts to get weird.....

The manual is the one that came with the Loco from the manufacturer and all this kit is factory fitted with sound. The manual is printed up with the model number on the front and a picture of it so I am pretty confident it is as stated. The model was released circa 2013 and discontinued 2014/15. The parts diagram in the manual shows two unidentified electrical boards.....so all point toward factory fitted.

Here is the model listed on the Marklin website: https://www.lgb.com/products/details/article/27802/

The Manufacture ID reads 123, the Software reads 3.5 and the decoder type read 1 (what does that mean?).

If i use an XLS profile in the Massoth tool, the CVs will populate up to 255 with Sound decoder programming values consistent with the XLS profile.

A number of the CVs normally accessible to an XLS configuration appear to have been blocked suggesting there is a hidden lock somewhere or the Marklin OEM version of this decoder has been dumbed down (why would they do this)?

All of that aside, why wont the darned thing switch on back EMF using the CV table supplied?

Why would Marklin install a high functioning chip then offer their customers a kiddie version of the configuration?

Why cant I reset the decoder? The manual is clear in stating "setting CV55 to a value of 55 will reset the decoder to factory values". I can write to, and read back all the CVs listed in the manual.
 
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How 'new' is this loco? Not a buggered motor , is it?
 
It will NOT have had an XLS fitted as an OEM decoder. - At least, to the best of my knowledge, but during the 'bump' that was Marklin taking control, who knows??

Programming lock, and power-buffer, are two of the things that could cause you not to be able to read / write CV's consistently..
I think you may have to bite the bullet, and look under the hood.. ?? :nerd::nod::nod:
 
It will not be a Massoth XLS. I suspect an LGB Large onboard decoder (made by Massoth, hence the 123 manuf. code).

Try performing a reset (CV55 to 55) with the cab switch in position 0.

Looking under the hood on this should be easy. 3 or 5 screws (cant remember) and lift the body off.
 
I was reluctant to open it up but I think that's the next step. Just out of curiosity on what the darn thing is. Has anyone every received a response from Marklin? I have sent off a few emails to the email address on their website and am yet to receive a response. Of course my preference would be to receive some clear instructions.....
 
Slawman said:
I was reluctant to open it up but I think that's the next step. Just out of curiosity on what the darn thing is. Has anyone every received a response from Marklin? I have sent off a few emails to the email address on their website and am yet to receive a response. Of course my preference would be to receive some clear instructions.....
Click to expand...

Marklin! - Clear instructions!! :eek::shake::shake:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: :(
 
Just checking what you said in post #1.
CV54 is the LGB configuration value, and bit 1 (counting from 0) is the back EMF on/off for MTS/DCC, bit 2 (counting from 0) is for analog/DC.
Their instructions are in a mess, for CV29 they count from bit 0, for CV54 they count from bit 1.
From an old LGB manual this explains CV54.
"CV54 LGB Configuration (can be used with analog operation except hand-over function and MTS Back-EMF)
Each bit controls additional basic functions. The values for the individual functions are added. The sum is programmed as the function value in the CV.
Programming range:
0: hand-over function off 1: hand-over function on
0: MTS Back-EMF off 2: MTS Back-EMF on
0: analog Back-EMF off 4: analog Back-EMF on
..."
 
Yes it is as clear as mud however I remember the olden days of DCC so this was not too foreign to me. I can change the chuff rate and turn the braking sound on and off for example however cannot activate the BEMF. It may be defective however the poor instructions and the mystery decoder just adds to all the fun :party:
 
So have you tried changing CV54 bit 1?

As we all agree a picture of the decoder (and sound decoder/module if it is separate) would help us know what we are dealing with. It's a pain but easier than sending it back.
 
stockers said:
How 'new' is this loco? Not a buggered motor , is it?
Click to expand...

It was new as far as I know. Still had the plastic film on it (that glad wrap stuff). Never run or taken out of the box.

idlemarvel said:
So have you tried changing CV54 bit 1?

As we all agree a picture of the decoder (and sound decoder/module if it is separate) would help us know what we are dealing with. It's a pain but easier than sending it back.
Click to expand...

I have tried a few different permutations. No success. I am waiting for a response from Marklin and Massoth before cracking it open. If I have not heard by this coming weekend I will post the pictures of what's inside.
 
OK, after quite a bit of digging, here is what should be inside:

LGB onboard decoder

LGB onboard decoder

  • Media owner Slawman
  • Date added

And this:

LGB Sound Card

LGB Sound Card

  • Media owner Slawman
  • Date added

Problem remains. Cannot reset decoder using CV55 (value 55), cannot activate BEMF so no proper crawl speeds.....
 
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When you what should be inside, you are saying this is just a stock picture of an LGB decoder?
The picture of the sound card is missing, for me anyway.
 
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