New guy here, and in need of help

[rgaps]

To make a short story long, I've been running G-scale trains on my brother's layout (Lone Pine and Western Railroad) for a few years, every time he needs some help to show it off (yearly open house). Then I got a wild idea and decided it would be nice to have my own engine (his stuff is all narrow guage). So, I bid on and won an LGB 20892 (Sumpter Valley Mallet). Since my brother's layout is dead rail it will be necessary for me to convert the locomotive to battery and remote control. My first challenge was finding information on the 20892. I got the manuals and 'exploded' parts displays, but getting the thing apart was quite a challenge. That is when I found your web site/forum and found the information I was looking for on disassembly. The locomotive was manufactured in 1994 and is DCC ready, according to the Massoth web site (based on the sticker on the bottom). So I planned to use a Massoth eMOTION XL decoder, and for RC I was planning on using a receiver and hand controller from CVP Products (specifically the CONVRTR-60 receiver and T5000 wireless throttle), along with one of their 6.8 Ah lithium ion batteries. Now comes the fun part. I believe that all I have to do is connect the decoder to the existing PCB, using Massoth's 6 conductor cable, and then cut the two sets of white/brown wires that bring the power from the wheel pickups, and substitute power from the battery, via the CVP receiver. Sounds simple enough(?). One question I have has to do with two sets of wires that come from the rear drive unit to second PCB. One set has three black conductors, and the other has two black and one brown conductor. I was wondering what function they serve, if anyone knows. I have been unable to find any specific documentation on that. Any and all comments/suggestions will be appreciated.

 

[Zerogee]

Welcome to the forum, Rgaps (do you have an actual name we can call you, it generally feels much more polite to do so?).

Your 20892 appears to be a sound-equipped loco - from the info on the Champex-Linden database here:

Dampflokomotiven : : Sumpter Valley-Mallet-Dampflok 251, Sound

....and I think it is most likely newer than 1994 - is that the year embossed into the gearbox bottom plates, in which case it will be the year of design/copyright for that actual part, not for the loco itself?
If there is a small round gold sticker under the loco, the first and last digits of the six-digit number on the sticker will indicate the actual year of manufacture (eg: a 1998 built model would be 9xxxx8, a 2003 model 0xxxx3). As it is a DCC-ready loco, I think that would mean it's probably no older than 1998-99, and may well be newer.

I would think that the two sets of cables from the rear power unit are one set for the chuff sensor, and one for the reed switch triggers for the bell and whistle; others may be able to tell you which is which.

As you're planning a dead-rail-DCC installation, these two threads may be of some use or interest - my own experiments with a broadly similar system (although using Tam Valley and Stanton components rather than CVP), both in LGB 2-motor locos.... in both these cases I used Massoth XLS sound decoders as the locos did not have factory sound boards installed; in both cases I wanted the ability to switch the locos back to track power and control at any time, which is simply accomplished by a second DPDT toggle switch for "battery-off-track" options (the first one controls the battery feed, with "run-off-charge" positions); when switched to "track", the wireless-DCC receiver is bypassed and the loco behanves like any normal track-powered DCC model. This gives me a model that I can basically take and run anywhere that there is 45mm gauge track available, whether it is powered or dead-rail.

Building the Multi-Power Loco....

Today, I managed to put in a little time on my Multi-Power Loco project - the idea of which is to take an LGB track-power loco (an OBB 2095 "Whizzy Cranks", as it has a nice boxy body with plenty of room for added internal gubbins) and turn it in to a "touring" loco that I can take, and run...

www.gscalecentral.net

Multi-Power Loco Mark II.... this time it's steam.....

Having had success with my first "Multi-Power" loco project using an LGB 2095 Austrian BoBo Diesel, as described here: https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/building-the-multi-power-loco.309298/ I've now made a start on the second project, which is putting a similar setup into an LGB Saxon Meyer...

www.gscalecentral.net

Hope this may be of some use, good luck with your conversion!

Jon.

 

[Bill Barnwell]

To make a short story long, I've been running G-scale trains on my brother's layout (Lone Pine and Western Railroad) for a few years, every time he needs some help to show it off (yearly open house). Then I got a wild idea and decided it would be nice to have my own engine (his stuff is all narrow guage). So, I bid on and won an LGB 20892 (Sumpter Valley Mallet). Since my brother's layout is dead rail it will be necessary for me to convert the locomotive to battery and remote control. My first challenge was finding information on the 20892. I got the manuals and 'exploded' parts displays, but getting the thing apart was quite a challenge. That is when I found your web site/forum and found the information I was looking for on disassembly. The locomotive was manufactured in 1994 and is DCC ready, according to the Massoth web site (based on the sticker on the bottom). So I planned to use a Massoth eMOTION XL decoder, and for RC I was planning on using a receiver and hand controller from CVP Products (specifically the CONVRTR-60 receiver and T5000 wireless throttle), along with one of their 6.8 Ah lithium ion batteries. Now comes the fun part. I believe that all I have to do is connect the decoder to the existing PCB, using Massoth's 6 conductor cable, and then cut the two sets of white/brown wires that bring the power from the wheel pickups, and substitute power from the battery, via the CVP receiver. Sounds simple enough(?). One question I have has to do with two sets of wires that come from the rear drive unit to second PCB. One set has three black conductors, and the other has two black and one brown conductor. I was wondering what function they serve, if anyone knows. I have been unable to find any specific documentation on that. Any and all comments/suggestions will be appreciated.

See if this helps

To make a short story long, I've been running G-scale trains on my brother's layout (Lone Pine and Western Railroad) for a few years, every time he needs some help to show it off (yearly open house). Then I got a wild idea and decided it would be nice to have my own engine (his stuff is all narrow guage). So, I bid on and won an LGB 20892 (Sumpter Valley Mallet). Since my brother's layout is dead rail it will be necessary for me to convert the locomotive to battery and remote control. My first challenge was finding information on the 20892. I got the manuals and 'exploded' parts displays, but getting the thing apart was quite a challenge. That is when I found your web site/forum and found the information I was looking for on disassembly. The locomotive was manufactured in 1994 and is DCC ready, according to the Massoth web site (based on the sticker on the bottom). So I planned to use a Massoth eMOTION XL decoder, and for RC I was planning on using a receiver and hand controller from CVP Products (specifically the CONVRTR-60 receiver and T5000 wireless throttle), along with one of their 6.8 Ah lithium ion batteries. Now comes the fun part. I believe that all I have to do is connect the decoder to the existing PCB, using Massoth's 6 conductor cable, and then cut the two sets of white/brown wires that bring the power from the wheel pickups, and substitute power from the battery, via the CVP receiver. Sounds simple enough(?). One question I have has to do with two sets of wires that come from the rear drive unit to second PCB. One set has three black conductors, and the other has two black and one brown conductor. I was wondering what function they serve, if anyone knows. I have been unable to find any specific documentation on that. Any and all comments/suggestions will be appreciated.

see if this helps click on the 2085 wiring. pdf

 

[Madman]

Welcome aboard. If you haven't already decided on an operating system for your battery powered loco, visit G Scale Graphics site. It's battery conversions made simple.

Electronics

Custom Vinyl Lettering and Electronics for Garden Railroading

www.gscalegraphics.net

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Since he is looking at a DCC decoder, a deadrail system that drives a DCC decoder would probably be a better choice.

 

[rgaps]

Welcome to the forum, Rgaps (do you have an actual name we can call you, it generally feels much more polite to do so?).

Your 20892 appears to be a sound-equipped loco - from the info on the Champex-Linden database here:

Dampflokomotiven : : Sumpter Valley-Mallet-Dampflok 251, Sound

....and I think it is most likely newer than 1994 - is that the year embossed into the gearbox bottom plates, in which case it will be the year of design/copyright for that actual part, not for the loco itself?
If there is a small round gold sticker under the loco, the first and last digits of the six-digit number on the sticker will indicate the actual year of manufacture (eg: a 1998 built model would be 9xxxx8, a 2003 model 0xxxx3). As it is a DCC-ready loco, I think that would mean it's probably no older than 1998-99, and may well be newer.

I would think that the two sets of cables from the rear power unit are one set for the chuff sensor, and one for the reed switch triggers for the bell and whistle; others may be able to tell you which is which.

As you're planning a dead-rail-DCC installation, these two threads may be of some use or interest - my own experiments with a broadly similar system (although using Tam Valley and Stanton components rather than CVP), both in LGB 2-motor locos.... in both these cases I used Massoth XLS sound decoders as the locos did not have factory sound boards installed; in both cases I wanted the ability to switch the locos back to track power and control at any time, which is simply accomplished by a second DPDT toggle switch for "battery-off-track" options (the first one controls the battery feed, with "run-off-charge" positions); when switched to "track", the wireless-DCC receiver is bypassed and the loco behanves like any normal track-powered DCC model. This gives me a model that I can basically take and run anywhere that there is 45mm gauge track available, whether it is powered or dead-rail.

Building the Multi-Power Loco....

Today, I managed to put in a little time on my Multi-Power Loco project - the idea of which is to take an LGB track-power loco (an OBB 2095 "Whizzy Cranks", as it has a nice boxy body with plenty of room for added internal gubbins) and turn it in to a "touring" loco that I can take, and run...

www.gscalecentral.net

Multi-Power Loco Mark II.... this time it's steam.....

Having had success with my first "Multi-Power" loco project using an LGB 2095 Austrian BoBo Diesel, as described here: https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/building-the-multi-power-loco.309298/ I've now made a start on the second project, which is putting a similar setup into an LGB Saxon Meyer...

www.gscalecentral.net

Hope this may be of some use, good luck with your conversion!

Jon.

My father always said "It doesn't matter what they call you, as long as they call you for dinner.", but my name is actually 'Rick'. I appreciate your information. So it seems that the locomotive was manufactured in 2001, according to the sticker you mentioned. And I like the suggestion on making it easily switchable back to track power. Now all that remains is getting the parts and doing the work. thanks again.


Rick

 

[Zerogee]

Thanks Rick, and welcome again!
Good luck with your installation; the only other thing that came to mind that you may need to work around is that the factory sound board in the loco may (due to its age) only respond to "serial" commands rather than the "parallel" commands used by more modern equipment - you should be able to set your XL decoder up to output serial commands, but others on here who know the technical stuff more thoroughly than I do may be able to advise whether this will cause any complications with the signals from the CVP wireless system. I don't THINK you will have any trouble, as the CVP convertr will most likely output a parallel command set which the XL should be able to re-interpret in to the serial commands that the sound board may need - but maybe some of Those Wot Know Stuff can confirm this....?

Jon.

 

[Paul M]

Welcome Rick. Seems you have already tapped a good seam of knowledge

 

[Hutch]

Yep Rick, they all have valid suggestions, welcome.

 

[ge_rik]

As Jon suggests, as you are based in the States, the CVP Airwire system should meet your needs as it communicates with a DCC equipped loco via radio control - AirWire System Information

Rik

 

[Zerogee]

Rick, I know you said in your first post that you had already chosen the CVP system - but if you haven't actually purchased it yet, there is also the new DCC version of the Crest Revolution system to consider; I'm not recommending one over the other, as I have no idea how they actually compare either in technical specs or on price, but it might be worth looking into both of them before making your final choice, as both seem to do effectively the same job.

Jon.

 

[dunnyrail]

Rick, I know you said in your first post that you had already chosen the CVP system - but if you haven't actually purchased it yet, there is also the new DCC version of the Crest Revolution system to consider; I'm not recommending one over the other, as I have no idea how they actually compare either in technical specs or on price, but it might be worth looking into both of them before making your final choice, as both seem to do effectively the same job.

Jon.

Welcome to the Forum Rick, I was going to say that but Jon. beat me to it. If you look in the Battery Forum you will see that I reviewed and Test Ran the Aristo and a UK Based Dead Rail System. I imagine either of them or the CVP would be ideal but I fell you may like to see how easy it is to fit any of them. My review should go some way to helping you.

 

[ge_rik]

Rick, I know you said in your first post that you had already chosen the CVP system

Oooops! So he did..... I need to go to SpecSavers!

Rik

 

[Zerogee]

Welcome to the Forum Rick, I was going to say that but Jon. beat me to it. If you look in the Battery Forum you will see that I reviewed and Test Ran the Aristo and a UK Based Dead Rail System. I imagine either of them or the CVP would be ideal but I fell you may like to see how easy it is to fit any of them. My review should go some way to helping you.

For the avoidance of any confusion, note that the "Aristo" setup than JonD refers to here is the Crest Revolution one that I mentioned - Aristocraft USED to be heavily involved with Crest Electronics (i'm sure that Greg will be able to clarify the exact relationship between the two), but since Aristocraft's demise Crest has continued as a separate enterprise - I don't think you will now find any mention of the Aristocraft name in relation to Crest's current website and products.

Jon.

 

[PhilP]

I don't think you will now find any mention of the Aristocraft name in relation to Crest's current website and products.

But confusingly (as the web never forgets anything) Walthers.com still lists an 'Aristcraft' system as not available, and seems to link to the Crest DCC system, when you drill-down.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Just for mentioning:

The Polks had a hobby store, mostly model planes, they made model airplane controllers under contract with a company, I think Korea.

The Polks got into the model railroad business by making a scaled up copy of a Lionel caboose, and an exact copy of LGB track, and started making electronic controllers.

When they were sued by LGB, they almost lost the business and Crest was formed as a separate company from the model train business, and Aristo Craft and Crest emerged as separate companies.

When Aristo went bust, Crest survived as the already separate company, but that only lasted a couple of years, but then the original electronics designer bought the rights to the product and now calls the company PrecisionRC (even though the web site domain name is RevoElectronics)

So, this original designer and engineer, and Navin, who has been with Aristo forever are carrying the product line forwards, so in terms of design and support it has been uninterrupted really since inception years ago.

Congrats to them for keeping the product line alive and innovating new products.

Greg

 

[Zerogee]

Thanks for the clarification, Greg, I knew you were the one to have all the inside info.....

I admit I'd never heard about the LGB lawsuit - was it about the track?

Jon.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Yep, the molding of the ties was exact, the wood grain patterns identical to LGB. They almost went under.

The original company that predated Aristo was called REA and I have forgotten Nat Polk's partner, but they were a dealer/distributor for LGB in 1984.

1988 LGB terminates contract, 1992 Aristo goes into chapter 11 bankruptcy from $17 million suit from LGB, they (Aristo) eventually win and survive...

Greg

 

[Gizzy]

Welcome to the forum Rick....