MTS III? Massoth? Piko?

[Railfan]

Thanks for all of the information you provided, James. I'm sure that it will be useful to everyone.

BTW, I have no LGB hand controllers or receivers, just the MTS III central station. These would have to be purchased to use the LGB III central station.

I purchased my Piko system from James at the BT Show including a regulated power supply. The price was less than half the cost of the Massoth system. While I could afford the Massoth system, it was not as cost effective as the Piko system. The budget savings will be used for other train items.

James is very knowledgeable, provides support, offers DCC classes, and is easy to deal with. And he ships internationally if you aren't in the States. I recommend that you visit his web site to learn more.

 

[Railfan]

Am I right in thinking that the Massoth and Piko navigators are completely interchangeable with each other's central stations? Are they each compatible with the other's wireless receivers, or do you need the specific receiver for the specific navigator version?

You should ask PIKO about this, because no one (on Dutch forum) seems to know that

In addition to the information that was provided by "WaterColorJames" I have added a paragraph from the Piko manual as well as a start up screen pic.

 

[Santafemad]

I did have an LGB MTS system but changed to Massoth when i purchased some USA Trains locomotives - the 10A output was the reason I changed and has proved to have been a good reason. By the sound of it if you plan to run less amp hungry LGB locomotives then the Piko system sounds ideal.

PHIL

 

[Tim Brien]

I also am a happy customer of James. Friendly service and prompt shipping. My system has just cleared Australian customs and now awaiting clearance from Australia Post and delivery. Door to door service from the States in just on a week and half the cost than if purchased locally.

 

[whatlep]

(snip)
Door to door service from the States in just on a week and half the cost than if purchased locally.

Blimey! That doesn't bode well for the dealers in Australia! Is it import duty/ local sales tax that drives the difference, or something else?

 

[Tim Brien]

Total cost from James in Califirnia around $850 including postage (set also included a Piko 5 amp analogue controller). The same set up here at 'discounted price' would have cost me $1600 including postage. For legal reasons I cannot comment on why we are gouged here as regards MSRP. Massoth non-sound decoders are around 25% markup on U.S. prices, but Massoth sound decoders are $100 more than if sourced in the States. Our relatively 'strong' dollar value does soften the impact a bit for major purchases.

Piko locomotive/rolling stock are almost double the U.S. price even when an allowance for shipping is taken into account. I live in a major Australian city and yet there is no retail outlet within the city for LGB/Massoth/Piko purchases, so postage must be included for all Aussie purchases. The closest outlet for me is around a two hour drive into the country. A city of 3.5 million and no direct access to product. We are a captive market!
There is no import duty on imported hobby goods. We have a 10% GST as compared to your 20%? VAT. Do your own sums as to why we pay through the nose for our hobby. Moves are afoot from brick and mortar stores to impose GST on online purchases from offshore to Australia on goods less than $1000. Goods exceeding $1000 attract the 10% GST plus brokerage/import fees (but no excise tax/fees on hobby goods).

 

[jimmielx]

Tim, don't feel too bad about living in a big city without retail outlets for the major G scale manufacturers. I live in London and have to drive for an hour and a half (admittedly in a couple of directions) to reach a retailer!

 

[Zerogee]

Jon,
one wonders why anyone would purchase the 800 system when the cost of an add on transformer would price the 800 more expensive than the 1200 Dimax. One then still only has 8 amps against the 12 amps of its bigger brother. Is it possible the local Dimax 1200 does not have an integral power supply? It would be interesting to see the price differential between European 800 and 1200 Dimax central stations.

Current UK prices (from Jeremy at Dragon, BEFORE deducting his 5% discount for GSC forum members):
Dimax 1200Z £839.95, Dimax 800Z £549.95. 1200Z has integral transformer, 800Z requires external power supply. So, a significant difference between the two units over here - almost £300 - which makes the 800Z a more reasonable proposition (but of course still MUCH more than the new Piko box!). I have absolutely no idea why the US prices don't reflect the same sort of differential - unless for the US market they take the transformer out of the 1200Z case due to the voltage difference, so that both need external supplies?

Jon.

 

[Tim Brien]

James,
unfortunately, if I wish to shop in person (we do have an Aristocraft/USA Trains distributor in the centre of the city, but I do not purchase Aristo or USA Trains), then there is only one direction to follow. The distributor and a 'discount' retailer are only ten minutes apart from each other, but two hours away from me. No surprise that the grey import trade is very large out here.

I purchased a basic Massoth 'L' decoder out here to chip a loco awaiting the arrival of my Piko DCC. Well, the decoder was in stock, but so far the trip from 2 hours away has taken as long as my DCC set from California! I am still awaiting the decoder and yet expect my DCC set to arrive tomorrow (Thursday) or Friday. Another reason to import, it takes less time. I thought that the chip would take just a few days (overnight postage).

 

[mbendebba]

Current UK prices (from Jeremy at Dragon, BEFORE deducting his 5% discount for GSC forum members):
Dimax 1200Z £839.95, Dimax 800Z £549.95. 1200Z has integral transformer, 800Z requires external power supply. So, a significant difference between the two units over here - almost £300 - which makes the 800Z a more reasonable proposition (but of course still MUCH more than the new Piko box!). I have absolutely no idea why the US prices don't reflect the same sort of differential - unless for the US market they take the transformer out of the 1200Z case due to the voltage difference, so that both need external supplies?

Jon.

Jon:
The 1200Z is not available in the US, we get the 1210Z instead, and like the 800Z, it does not an integrated power supply. Hence, the smaller differential ($171). There is a big differential between what you pay for the 800Z and what we pay for it, we pay the equivalent of $200.00 more and I do not understand why. Prices of Massoth products are signinficantly higher here than they in Europe despite the fact that we do not have a VAT , and shipping to the US account for no more than 8% of the price.

 

[Zerogee]

Current UK prices (from Jeremy at Dragon, BEFORE deducting his 5% discount for GSC forum members):
Dimax 1200Z £839.95, Dimax 800Z £549.95. 1200Z has integral transformer, 800Z requires external power supply. So, a significant difference between the two units over here - almost £300 - which makes the 800Z a more reasonable proposition (but of course still MUCH more than the new Piko box!). I have absolutely no idea why the US prices don't reflect the same sort of differential - unless for the US market they take the transformer out of the 1200Z case due to the voltage difference, so that both need external supplies?

Jon.

Jon:
The 1200Z is not available in the US, we get the 1210Z instead, and like the 800Z, it does not an integrated power supply. Hence, the smaller differential ($171). There is a big differential between what you pay for the 800Z and what we pay for it, we pay the equivalent of $200.00 more and I do not understand why. Prices of Massoth products are signinficantly higher here than they in Europe despite the fact that we do not have a VAT , and shipping to the US account for no more than 8% of the price.

Ah, thanks Mohammed, the 1200Z/1210Z thing explains that part! I wonder if the significant price markup on Massoth products in the US is down to the old Massoth USA distributor adding their cut on top of the prices before selling to dealers, maybe now that Massoth Germany seem to be shipping direct to dealers, you will see that change? As it stands at the moment, I don't see anything to prevent a US customer (individual, not retailer) ordering an 800Z from a UK or other European dealer, who should DEDUCT the VAT for a sale outside the EU - which would bring the price of the 800Z down to about £456 (or even £434 with a discount like Jeremy's!). Even with the costs of shipping (maybe £50 at the most, for fully insured air parcel post), that would be a significant saving on the US retail price - I make it around $775 US Dollars all-in at current exchange rates!

Jon.

 

[mbendebba]

Current UK prices (from Jeremy at Dragon, BEFORE deducting his 5% discount for GSC forum members):
Dimax 1200Z £839.95, Dimax 800Z £549.95. 1200Z has integral transformer, 800Z requires external power supply. So, a significant difference between the two units over here - almost £300 - which makes the 800Z a more reasonable proposition (but of course still MUCH more than the new Piko box!). I have absolutely no idea why the US prices don't reflect the same sort of differential - unless for the US market they take the transformer out of the 1200Z case due to the voltage difference, so that both need external supplies?

Jon.

Jon:
The 1200Z is not available in the US, we get the 1210Z instead, and like the 800Z, it does not an integrated power supply. Hence, the smaller differential ($171). There is a big differential between what you pay for the 800Z and what we pay for it, we pay the equivalent of $200.00 more and I do not understand why. Prices of Massoth products are signinficantly higher here than they in Europe despite the fact that we do not have a VAT , and shipping to the US account for no more than 8% of the price.

Ah, thanks Mohammed, the 1200Z/1210Z thing explains that part! I wonder if the significant price markup on Massoth products in the US is down to the old Massoth USA distributor adding their cut on top of the prices before selling to dealers, maybe now that Massoth Germany seem to be shipping direct to dealers, you will see that change? As it stands at the moment, I don't see anything to prevent a US customer (individual, not retailer) ordering an 800Z from a UK or other European dealer, who should DEDUCT the VAT for a sale outside the EU - which would bring the price of the 800Z down to about £456 (or even £434 with a discount like Jeremy's!). Even with the costs of shipping (maybe £50 at the most, for fully insured air parcel post), that would be a significant saving on the US retail price - I make it around $775 US Dollars all-in at current exchange rates!

Jon.

Morning Jon:
The current US published price for the 800Z is $978, unchanged from what it was when a distributor was involved. Considering the ease with which a US customer can order from a European dealer, he would be better off doing so if cost was the only consideration. I am a US dealer, and I find that a bit hard to swallow. Massoth has got to do something about if it wishes to get a significant foothold in the US. market. Their penetration of the US market is no where near what it is in Europe.
Mohammed

 

[whatlep]

Quote/endquote tags in previous 3 notes corrected by me in Moderator mode to assist readability.