More Regner Else and no water

[Fred2179G]

A while back there was a Regner "Else" thread started by Jake in Oz:
Regner Else
which had 2 extra pages of discussion about distilled/deionized water. (If you fancy discussing water, please do it on that other thread.)

Some weeks towards the end of that thread, "ol hogger" posted a few pics of his loco, and Jake said his was for sale. In a moment of weakness, I bought the "Else" from Jake and it arrived yesterday from Australia.

I put it on rollers today and did all the usual stuff to get some steam pressure. I finally figured out the smokebox door opens, which helped. When I got 2 bar, I opened the throttle and nothing happened. After a few moments I realized I hadn't put it in forward (or reverse) gear - so where was the reversing lever? Hmmm . .

I turned off the gas and gently laid it on a towel on its side. Aha - a rotary valve for reversing. But nothing to make it do something.



That's my new engine from Jake above - as you can see, it had almost no wear. Below is the pic 'ol hogger' posted of his loco:

Mine seems a bit newer, but neither have anything attached to the rotary reverser. So the great mystery - how is the valve supposed to be operated, rotated, or whatever? I can't see sticking my finger underneath when it is hot.

P.S. I discovered (in the 2009 Regner Catalog) that Else, Emma and Frieda all share the same chassis, so anyone with one of them can possibly explain this little conundrum.

 

[PhilP]

Does it have slip eccentric motion?

With this, you give a loco a slight 'shove' in the direction you want it to go.. This sets the valve gear, for that direction.

But that is all I know..

 

[Fred2179G]

Does it have slip eccentric motion?

Sorry, but no. That's a rotary direction valve, like the Mamod has on the front. I just don't know which direction it is supposed to point, or how you change it when hot.

 

[dunnyrail]

Sorry, but no. That's a rotary direction valve, like the Mamod has on the front. I just don't know which direction it is supposed to point, or how you change it when hot.

Perhaps you could post some pictures of the rest of the loco, there may be something up too that is not immediately obvious. If all else fails you could ask Regner. Google Translate is your friend here, I tend to write in English and include a Google Translation out of courtesy, I have found it helps every time.

 

[palmerston]

 

[Fred2179G]

you could ask Regner

I did, in fact, ask Graham at Garden Railways, the UK importer who has been very helpful in the past. He sent me the Emma manual, and says the loco is designed for r/c. He also mentioned I have working brakes. (As far as I can see, the R/C hints suggest putting a servo on the Pfeife (whistle) but no sign of one for the brakes or the throttle!) Here's the underside of an Emma:



Looks like Palmerston found the same pic - thanks.
This comes from the Regner 2009 Katalog, and shows much the same layout:

 

[Paul M]

So the direction is controlled by the little brass ring at the front of the loco

 

[Fred2179G]

the direction is controlled by the little brass ring

It's not so much a ring as a disk. Here's the parts (from the Emma Manual)



The block on the right has steam ports and the 'disk' in the center directs the steam - and reverses when you move it to a different orientation.

 

[Tropic Blunder1]

As fred shows it has 90 degrees of movement in the rotary valve. pretty cool idea but as you've figured out not super handy for manually reversing! I pulled it apart and marked it a few times to try and figure out exactly which way it should be orientated to get correct admission but I simply ran out of time after an afternoon of fiddling and never got back around to it.

As you noticed its pretty much brand new so hopefully you get plenty of enjoyment out of it

 

[dunnyrail]

I did, in fact, ask Graham at Garden Railways, the UK importer who has been very helpful in the past. He sent me the Emma manual, and says the loco is designed for r/c. He also mentioned I have working brakes. (As far as I can see, the R/C hints suggest putting a servo on the Pfeife (whistle) but no sign of one for the brakes or the throttle!) Here's the underside of an Emma:

View attachment 296688

Looks like Palmerston found the same pic - thanks.
This comes from the Regner 2009 Katalog, and shows much the same layout:

View attachment 296690

I should have thought about my Regner Berta Steam Tram. Exactly the same!

Never been run in spite of being mine since new and cant remember when now.

 

[Paul M]

I should have thought about my Regner Berta Steam Tram. Exactly the same!
View attachment 296712
Never been run in spite of being mine since new and cant remember when now.

If you don't want it, lob it South East, I'll do my best to catch it

 

[ol_hogger]

Accept my apologies for coming in this late. I was outside running Else.

As mentioned I stripped my Else of the obsolete RC system it came with. At that point I started wondering as to how manual controls were arranged originally. Screening german language forums I came across many Emmas, Friedas and some Elses. None of them manually operated! It was pointed out the Regner instructions kind of jump to RCing skipping a strictly manual set up. I never saw parts or spares a suitable reversing lever could consist of. (Right, Chaloner has got one, but it is strictly above the footplate and of no help here.)

I, therefore, humbly assume a reversing lever never was planned. Perhaps because manual running is a fairly one directional operation. (Besides maybe backing up onto the train.)

I thought of having some actuating wire below the front buffer beam but never got around to install it. Then again, she has got a plain hook front and a Märklin coupler aft. Thus we are back to unidirectional mode depending on what train I want her to pull. Just make sure to set the reversing valve before it gets hot. (Don't ask why I would know.)

 

[Fred2179G]

set the reversing valve before it gets hot. (Don't ask why I would know.)

I know why. I was playing with it while the loco was hot!

Interesting that there are several photos around, including in the Emma Manual that Graham sent me, showing the servo working the whistle, but nothing on the throttle. Weird.

Fortunately, after a minor problem last year, I collected some r/c linkage connectors (no idea what they are actually called.) They take a wire and hold it with a bolt or set screw and the bottom is threaded to fit a servo arm or similar. I have 2 kinds, and one had the M3 thread that the reverser has - bingo!




The plan, when I get a minute, is to remove the front coupler and run that piece of wire through the hole to the reverser, so at least I can control it for now.

 

[ol_hogger]

Why would they have no servo on the throttle?
- Because they didn't have smartphones back then! We have to remember this was last century's technology. While electronics have kept getting smaller, even a modest two-channel receiver was a bit of a mouthful. "Tuck it behind the gas tank" Regner wrote. Their illustrations told a different story. If you wanted the whistle, you had to get by with one channel for direction and speed.

The rotating reverser valve was capable of achieving just that. Remember that these were simple locomotives without expansion and, therefore, equipped with simplified valve gear which had to be set permanently thus allowing no variation in cut-off during operation - nor change of direction, for that matter. The advantage of this design being,, nonetheless, that the passage of steam through valves and cylinders (and thereby the direction of movement) could be reversed by simply swapping the steam lines: in for out, out for in. Much like the leads of an electric motor.

The reversing valva was designed to gradually throttle the steam apertures while rotating 45 degrees to fully closed and opening gradually, yet swapped for the next 45 degrees. Bingo: one servo would suffice to control both speed and direction. The throttle on the backhead would work but as a shut off valve and perhaps be used to limit top speed, yet could have been be done without. (Running manually, we are quite happy it is there, obviously,)

Anyone recall Märklin's first modern live steamer 55001 aka class 89.66 (actually a Regner product)? They got away with doing things exactly this way.

 

[Fred2179G]

"Tuck it behind the gas tank" Regner wrote

Yes, maybe! There's at least 1/8" of space there Thanks for the comments and clarification.

I did get a few minutes to add a crude manual reverser to the front. First thing I found is that the reverser lever fouls on one of the cylinder bolts.



I also found I don't have working brakes - they are fixed in grooves on the frame:




Anyway, not relevant to steaming this little beast. I'd found the wire clamp was M3 so it was duly fitted in the reverser lever after I took off the front coupler.



Then a piece of music/piano wire was bent to fit:



So with a pair of pliers or similar I can move the reverser without turning the loco upside down.

I'd also noted a few leaks. The blank on the manifold was removed and teflon added with a new copper washer:




Next was another steam test. The leak from the blank was gone, but the top of the water glass decided to leak. There's also a leak from the stuffing on the oiler/lubricator, and it seemed that there was a lot of water dripping out underneath - probably from the reverser valve, which became a steam leak as the cylinders warmed up. Guess I'll have to tear that down and see what is going on.

No sign of motion. The wheels were trying to spin at 1-2 bar but they seemed to jam after 1/2 a revolution. Sigh.

 

[ol_hogger]

Don't be cross when she takes a leak initially like a misbehaving pup. It's most likely condensate from the exhaust pipe running down from the smokebox through the generous aperture where said pipe comes up.

If it jams with kind of a hard bang: Check the whatchacallit cylinder glands. They might foul the crosshead. Tighten between two finger - no spanner, please. (Same applies to the water sightglass, btw)

If the jamming feels elastic, like a bicycle pump: reset the timing as per pictures in Regner's instructions. For the wheel position shown there, the piston will be in its rearmost position, conveniently verified by the main rod and the coupling rod being in perfect alignment one on top of the other. The excentric crank should slant down and to the front bringing the pin to its lowermost position. If this is not so, the crank needs to be adjusted. It's hard to judge from your picture. The sliding valve should now be flush with the front edge of its housing. Adjustment by shifting the hanger. If you are young, you may eyeball this condition. If over 50, you will want to strategically place a screwdriver blade across the steam chest front and push the hanger home. Make sure to check both sides.

 

[Fred2179G]

It's most likely condensate from the exhaust pipe running down from the smokebox through the generous aperture where said pipe comes up.

That is probably true - I hadn't investigated the source of the water and it did stop after a while.

This is my 3rd Regner, btw, so I have spare copper washers, etc. I'll see if I can translate the Emma instructions on timing, as that's what it feels like.

 

[Fred2179G]

Hmmm . . .Google Translate.

To adjust the control piston, turn the slide rod Pivot point of the crank in the bottom dead center. The rocker should be almost vertical. Now loosen the fastening screws of the swingarm holder and moves it until the control piston flush with the cylinder at the front. Now you have it center of control. Turning the wheels should the control piston look out approx. 1.5 mm and check half a turn 1.5 mm. On the on the other side one creates the same state. If compressed air is available, you could now with a little oil in the line, the first attempts to run while turning the reversing valve by 45°. Back forward drive and 45° forward reverse drive. You are now a little more than halfway done!

 

[ol_hogger]

That' s the right picture. main rod covering coupling rod, crank pointing down. Now loosen the hex bolts in the middle and look what happens when you shift the hanger forward and backward. The valve will move in the steam chest. Position screwdriver blade across steam chest front, push valve against it, retighten.

Turning the wheels you should then observe the valve appear for 1.5 mm only to retract again for the same distance.

 

[Fred2179G]

crank pointing down

In that position, the valve should be in mid-position.

the hex bolts in the middle

I assume you are referring to the bolts holding the hanger to the footplate.

Thanks for your help and advice. I try not to have to re-work timing on steam engines if possible!