making wheels

[justme igor]

I have been looking/trying into making wheels production wise.
With one date and with around one are(date)?!?!?!?!?
I think i found the ones i would like to have and i am able to copy them...
Mind you this is stil experimental.....
The tools and the production are subject of chance....be aware of this because i am still not pleased.......
Again i am not a computer/photo hero

 

[justme igor]

again comments and whatever are appreciated and welcome, thanks in advance..
With best regards, Igor K

 

[trammayo]

again comments and whatever are appreciated and welcome, thanks in advance..
With best regards, Igor K

Some clever thinking Igor - you obviously modified a wood boring bit.

 

[Paul M]

The bits which actually run on the rails also need to be angled, otherwise derailing will occur. Someone will come up with the correct angle as I think it's about 3° but not sure

 

[Rhinochugger]

The bits which actually run on the rails also need to be angled, otherwise derailing will occur. Someone will come up with the correct angle as I think it's about 3° but not sure

Yeah, although with our out of scale flanges, you might just get away with it

 

[Greg Elmassian]

yes, file your bit to give some taper to the wheel tread.

Greg

 

[The Tinker]

I have a heap of Bachmann and LGB wheel/axles ion you want them 50p etc and you pay freight I am in NZ Easy to send tho.

 

[-bbbb]

I have been looking/trying into making wheels production wise.
With one date and with around one are(date)?!?!?!?!?
I think i found the ones i would like to have and i am able to copy them...
Mind you this is stil experimental.....
The tools and the production are subject of chance....be aware of this because i am still not pleased.......
Again i am not a computer/photo hero

What material are the wheels made of?

 

[dunnyrail]

I would be tempted to make a mandrill to fit the wheels then give them a touch with the file to get some taper then a gentle clean up with some light emery cloth. Interesting way to make wheels, my first port of call would have been the lathe!

 

[ge_rik]

Very clever! I do admire anyone who thinks outside the box to solve a modelling problem. I take my hat off to you sir!
View attachment 271379

Rik

 

[justme igor]

The material is hard pvc what i also use to make frogs (1cm) i need to order some thinner 6 mm.

Yes a lathe, that crossed my mind, but that would be a lot more work and probably with to many differences.
A decent lathe is also very costly, would like to buy one anyway for other projects.

Yes the taper is really something to get on the wheel, thanks for the warnings! How could i miss that?
I am planning to make this a 4 step process.
1st, with a "belzer cutting tool" with a cutter that has the correct angle.
2nd a adapted 20mm wood drill to get the inside nice.
3th a adapted 32 to 40mm wood drill to get nice rounding.
4th a 38mm(inside) hole saw.

With this way i think i can be very precise, do some production and sharpen my bits, pvc is not friendly to work with.
It is possible to sharpen the 40mm wood drill as shown in one of the photos, but not with a file, lucky for me i am pretty handy with a angle grinder
Sharpen the 40mm drill as it is right now, the dimensions would be drifting off.

Molding hot plastic also crossed my mind, it can be done easy, only the process to make one wheel would take to long.
Thanks for the offer, i will send you a pm.

Thanks for all the replays and thinking along.

 

[Paul M]

The bits which actually run on the rails also need to be angled, otherwise derailing will occur. Someone will come up with the correct angle as I think it's about 3° but not sure

Sorry Igor, I should have said, as others have pointed out, that it's an excellent way of making a lot of wheels quickly. Obviously with you grinding skills you can make any shaped wheels you require by just shaping the drill bit. There was actually something on this forum that had wooden wheels, with your knowledge of wood, would (sorry) that be worth looking at?

 

[-bbbb]

The material is hard pvc what i also use to make frogs (1cm) i need to order some thinner 6 mm.

The dust generated from that sounds deadly.

 

[justme igor]

At Paul,
I thought about wooden wheels and there are some minor problems with it.
As i like to work with tight fittings and as much as true to scale.
A bonus with tight fitting is that the axle will stay at his 90 degree angle.
Fitting in the axle can cause the wood to split, the axle is also going to act like the bearing.
The weight needed to hold long trains on the track would be probably to much, the hole where the axle is in would be getting bigger.
Even in the most hardwoods.
The flange of wooden wheels would be to thin to function properly, they will break to easy or have a ugly 3mm thick flange.
The bits that make contact with the rails will wear out pretty quickly i am afraid.

At -bbbb
The dust from pvc is mostly shavings and even when cutting it on a saw table the bits are bigger and heavier than saw dust.
But oke if you are lucky enough to get that fine pvc stuff into your lungs....your body will react on it:
It will create more slime in your longs so you can cough it up.
If you do this every day as a job and dont wear your protection...the countdown has began...(applies for all dusts btw)
The bits are to big to trigger long fibrosis.
With saw dust and dust from sanding it is going to be a other story.
That dust will get in between your long cells, like all good woods do they expand when getting wet(wine/rain barrels ect) thus more difficult to get that out of the body.
Materials like asbestos, glass fiber, rock wool ect can get stuck (the fiber not the dust)and thus creates lung fibrosis (aka cancer)

Thanks

 

[Paul M]

At Paul,
I thought about wooden wheels and there are some minor problems with it.
As i like to work with tight fittings and as much as true to scale.
A bonus with tight fitting is that the axle will stay at his 90 degree angle.
Fitting in the axle can cause the wood to split, the axle is also going to act like the bearing.
The weight needed to hold long trains on the track would be probably to much, the hole where the axle is in would be getting bigger.
Even in the most hardwoods.
The flange of wooden wheels would be to thin to function properly, they will break to easy or have a ugly 3mm thick flange.
The bits that make contact with the rails will wear out pretty quickly i am afraid.

Just an idea, after remembering the wooden wheels loco that was spoken about on this forum!

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Igor, can you explain "tight fittings", and also reading your post it seemed that you wanted the wheels to turn on the axle, i.e. the axle does not rotate.

Thanks, Greg

 

[justme igor]

I think i explained it wrong or i have the definition of axle wrong.
What i think the axle is, is in my case the brass tube.
The brass tube rotates free around the threaded rod.



Advantage of this "system"for me is that i can be very precise adjust the wheels on the axle and the rod in between the sides of the boogie.
There will be no loose parts and the friction will be minimal. yes it will wear out in a couple of years.
But better than fiddling around with bearing of 6mm in diameter with a axle of 3 mm
The boogies need also some cosmetic adjustment and cutting, i think i have some spear time today to play in the shed.



For now there is a bold as a example, i still must buy a threaded rod in that size, and cut to the desired lengths.

Best

 

[PhilP]

I love the way you adapt things..

This is a 'stream of consciousness' (thoughts as they come).. it might ramble-on a bit:

While the tube will wear internally on the 'point-contact' of the edges of the thread, I would be more concerned about the ends of the brass tube wearing-away over time? - I think this will increase the side-play of the axle / wheel assembly?

This may not be a problem (knowing how 'sloppy' of models are)? - It helps them run on non-perfect track.

There is a substance called 'glass-filled nylon' which might wear better than your 'hard-PVC'? - Obviously, dust from machining glass-filled.. will not be good, and it may-well blunt tools a lot faster?


I wonder if a stepped-axle (from smooth rod), with turned-down ends, to fit in bearings in the side frames, might be a more 'traditional' and long-lasting solution?
I would think once you have the dimensions sorted, it is the sort of job that could be 'contracted-out'? - Especially if you want a lot of stock, and can have a 'standard' axle across all the non-powered items?

Probably some-way from being that sure of what you want yet..

PhilP.

 

[justme igor]

This is a 'stream of consciousness' (thoughts as they come).. it might ramble-on a bit:

Keep on rambling please.......

While the tube will wear internally on the 'point-contact' of the edges of the thread, I would be more concerned about the ends of the brass tube wearing-away over time? - I think this will increase the side-play of the axle / wheel assembly?

It will wear out over time, for sure, probably sooner than i will suspect, picking up dirt is like grinding steel.
You have a really good point there! the contact of the brass pipe ends with the nut.....
A situation sketch right atm!!!................: thinking (and looking at the courser) for 5 minutes for a technical solution in conjunction with methods, materials and planning production wise...
Was not kidding!
One of my thoughts: bearings in a aluminium (or brass or steel...no inox) strip pressed: pre drilled holes 0.1 mm or 0.05mm (will experiment) smaller in dia than the bearings, press them in with the small arbor press.
Would be even quicker and better.

This may not be a problem (knowing how 'sloppy' of models are)? - It helps them run on non-perfect track.

I would like a minimum of sloppiness, i would like to have everything as accurate/tight as possible, 0.3 mm is big in boogies, but for own made tracks a think a max deviation of 0.5 is allowed? I have my spacing at a minimum tolerance at 44.8mm and max 45.2mm between the rails....90% is 44.9 to 45.1, not taking in consideration the working of wood when it is in the garden getting wet.(processing in the shed at ~40-50 rh)
With other hobby's i can be(must!) be precise at a 0.0005-0.0002 inch!!! yes 3 x a 0 after the point.

There is a substance called 'glass-filled nylon' which might wear better than your 'hard-PVC'

Clever thinking!

Obviously, dust from machining glass-filled.. will not be good, and it may-well blunt tools a lot faster?

In some cases (most) i have ventilation on 360 cubic meters an hour and often a pro mask, tools can be sharped, lungs is a different story .

I wonder if a stepped-axle (from smooth rod), with turned-down ends, to fit in bearings in the side frames, might be a more 'traditional' and long-lasting solution?

This was also crossing my mind, no "but" for now, again clever thinking!

Especially if you want a lot of stock, and can have a 'standard' axle

That is the goal...

Thanks a lot Philp for thinking along, it is really appreciated, some times you just must have a "sparring partner", just that one: "small (or big) different angle of view" as we say in the Netherlands

Many thanks and best/cheers.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I think you will have friction problems, put at least one washer, with lubricant between the wheel's brass tube and the nut.

I don't know the length of trains (number of cars) you want, but there are very cheap ball bearings available. (longer trains will desire lowere friction)

Otherwise, you may notice that is is common to use a metal axle in a plastic "journal" which serves as the bearing, and also will hold grease or oil.

Are you using the G1MRA or Morop or NMRA standards for wheel specifications?