Live steam locomotive WATER

[ZingyOrange]

Blimey, thanks for the replies..
OK ...........
So if I use tap water in York, with a filter, will the boiler last say 20 years with moderate use? By the time I'm 73 It wont matter what the boiler is like, I'll either be up the chimney or dribbling into my Cornflakes.

You may need to descale it one or twice in that time depending on the water quality but it should easily last 20 years. No matter what water you choose the best thing you can do to prevent corrosion is to empty the boiler after a run and store it dry. I have a 20 year old brass boilered Mamod SL1 thats still going strong and has only ever seen soft tap water

 

[Railfan]

I used to work for one of the semiconductor manufacturers. Our wafer fab facility required ultra pure water for the wafer processing. Even a sub-micron particle could impact the wafer yields. The city water, which is pretty good to begin with, went into the water treatment for the fab. The water that came out was far better than even triple distilled water. The water went past UV lamps to kill the bacteria, filtered through huge multiple filters to remove particles (and bacteria bodies), etc., and then was further treated. The interesting part was to look at the mechanical filters in the beginning to see what was in the "good" tap water. The early filters were full of green and brown particles. The green was mostly algae, and the brown assorted particles were from pipes, etc. After seeing what was actually in good tap water, I wouldn't put it in one of my engines. However, over time it may or may not make a difference to the engine, but I won't use it.

And, yes, I still drink tap water.

 

[John Morgan]

Dave,
I ran a Mamod SL 1 for many years on our Chiltern Hills, chalky tap water when I first started live steam. Well water is water is water isnt it? I didnt know any better at the time. I wouldnt use it now as I have learnt from others that it is not the best thing for boilers and pipes etc. When the Mamod came to the end of its useful life I cut the boiler open to see what damage I had done to the inside of the brass boiler. There was little if any lime scale to be seen !
John.

Blimey, thanks for the replies..
OK ...........
So if I use tap water in York, with a filter, will the boiler last say 20 years with moderate use? By the time I'm 73 It wont matter what the boiler is like, I'll either be up the chimney or dribbling into my Cornflakes.

You may need to descale it one or twice in that time depending on the water quality but it should easily last 20 years. No matter what water you choose the best thing you can do to prevent corrosion is to empty the boiler after a run and store it dry. I have a 20 year old brass boilered Mamod SL1 thats still going strong and has only ever seen soft tap water

 

[jacobsgrandad]

Blimey, thanks for the replies..
OK ...........
So if I use tap water in York, with a filter, will the boiler last say 20 years with moderate use? By the time I'm 73 It wont matter what the boiler is like, I'll either be up the chimney or dribbling into my Cornflakes.

Ooh is this what I have to look forward to next year!!

 

[themole]

Also to de-scale use a little vineagar in the water does the trick! Alyn

 

[p.williams]

I always use distilled water BP - ordered from my local chemist. £5.00 for 5 ltrs.
how on earth h***by have the nerve to charge £5.00 + per litre for the same stuff,
I dont know !

 

[Rhos Helyg Loco Works]

I always use distilled water BP - ordered from my local chemist. £5.00 for 5 ltrs.

My coal-fired loco would get through that in about 3 hours! Expensive...

 

[AFGadd]

I've got a condensing Tumble Drier in the shed next to my workshop, in the winter I'm throwing away GALLONS of distilled water....
I've filled every container I could find for storage through the summer.

 

[longwallmining]

I find the tears of unicorns to be the best.

 

[bobg]

# A long time ago when the earth was green, there were more kinds of animals than you've ever seen............
There were humpty back camels, and some chimpanzees, cats and rats and elephants,.................... #

 

[New Haven Neil 2]

This is an interesting thread -

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/ftopic37333-0-asc-0.php

Doesn't prove anything, but it does show cases of de-zinc in brass boilers, so at least showing it does occur, just don't really know why!

 

[ZingyOrange]

This is an interesting thread -

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/ftopic37333-0-asc-0.php

Doesn't prove anything, but it does show cases of de-zinc in brass boilers, so at least showing it does occur, just don't really know why!

Dezinc is a galvanic process and occurs because the brass is in contact with another less corrosion prone metal (probably in the solder). Basically the electrons in the corrosion prone metal want to move towards the more stable, less reactive metal. When this occurs zinc ions are given up to the water. For this type of corrosion to occur the water has to conduct electricity.

The link certainly shows corrosion but it isn't dezinc, it's just oxidation of the zinc in the brass. The higher the zinc content the more corrosion will occur. Purified water (distilled / deionised) will contain more dissolved gasses than mineralised water so may cause more oxidation corrosion in poor quality brass but on the plus side will cause less dezinc as they are poor electrical conductors (swings and roundabouts?). Boiling the water removes these gasses. Purified water is also more prone to pH changes than mineralised water. Some manufacturers recommend adding a small amount of tap water to distilled water. This buffers the water better so makes it less prone to becoming acidic or alkaline. If your boiler is made of decent quality (low zinc) brass or copper then this really isn't necessary.

Hope this helps

 

[stevem]

Good Morning

Here in Australia I use "Untra pure" drinking water (distiled water) from the supermarket which is half the price of regular distiled water. There is a couple brands of distiled water here selling as pure drinking water.

Regards
Steve

 

[kevininasia]

Most people talk Gonads about water for your puffer. You will have spent a lot of money on that puffer so listen to someone who has had puffers since 1973.

No Tap Water.

No Deinnosed.

No Distilled

No Water from Water Butts unless you are sure hat it is free from polution or stuff.

Find someone who can give you water from a DEMUMIFIFIER, you will never get better. There are plenty of people out there with them, so if you may need to need to talk to neighbours, who knows what friends you make in this process.

Sorry but your puffer was not cheep, why risk it.

JonD

I recently completed an experiment on another forum (linked below) which supports your statement. Can I ask how you know that distilled water is bad? Personally I agree, but there is no published evidence about it. Would be interested to know more.

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about54748.html

This is a great site. I will have a garden railway, one day.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[Shawn]

I guess we are spoiled in the US. I can get distilled water at grocery store, drug store, walmarts , lowes etc...... I pay less the $1 for a gallon. For me I just use distilled water since its so easy to get.

 

[bobg]

Pure, true, distilled water cannot be a problem; in fact that is exactly what you get from a dehumidifier or condensing drier (even that can be contaminated with other matter from the container). The problem can occur that often, what is sold as 'disitilled', if people take the trouble to check, is actually de-ionised water, and that, if the filters that make it aren't changed frequently enough, can cause problems with oins left in the water and could lead to dezincification in the long term (probably 'very').

Dezincification problems will not occur with de-ionised water in a silver-soldered copper boiler (there's no zinc), but have been known to dezincify some fittings, so they should always be bronze or gun-metal, when directly on the boiler (water-gauges, clack valves etc.).

 

[sparky230]

What about water from a RO unit, one of my customers is a major water filter distribitor and i have access to there lab RO unit.

 

[bobg]

I have no exerience of Reverse Osmosis, but it is supposed to remove minerals from water, so will perhaps remove sufficient calcium for our purpose, but does it remove any of the acids etc that are also possibly present and cannot pass with distilation?

Personally I would stick with what I'm sure of.

 

[funandtrains]

There is no perfect water, just don't use water with dirt or a significant mineral content. Steam engines are machines and will wear and age. Don't worry too much just enjoy it.

 

[tramcar trev]

I find the tears of unicorns to be the best.

Yes but if you lived in Australia you would find Thylacine Urine or Platypus Urine superior to Unicorn tears..... The secret is in the Tannins that prevent corrosion....
Pure water has pH 7, so still, freshly distilled water should have a pH of 7.0. However, interaction with the atmosphere allows carbon dioxide to dissolve into it, forming carbonic acid. As a result, agitating the water or allowing it to sit for a while will leave you with an aqueous solution that drifts down in pH. Because there are no natural buffers in distilled water, the pH can go down as low as 5.0. So distilled water can become quite acidic though boiling it should remove the CO2....