Linking EPL switches.

Mike Bett

Beer, G Gauge, Beer, Cricket, Beer.
14 Apr 2010
135
0
Fallbrook, California.
Hi Guys,

I am putting in a passing line with switches at either end to allow entry and exit.
I have linked the two switches. From the decoder to the first switch and from that switch to the other (slave) switch.
My problem is that they are not synchronised, switches pointing in different directions.
I have got this working in the past, but as age increases I can’t remember what I did to solve it.
Can anyone help me please.
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
19,128
3,868
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Hi Guys,

I am putting in a passing line with switches at either end to allow entry and exit.
I have linked the two switches. From the decoder to the first switch and from that switch to the other (slave) switch.
My problem is that they are not synchronised, switches pointing in different directions.
I have got this working in the past, but as age increases I can’t remember what I did to solve it.
Can anyone help me please.
Move 1 of the motors to the other side of the point.
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
19,128
3,868
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
If the motors are dc swap the wires over
Yes I was going to say that but thought they may be EPL ones as he has DCC, would swopping wires work as well with EPL ones?
 

JimmyB

Semi-Retired; more time for trains.
Yes swap the wires over, manually move one switch so they match and they move the wires (or at least that is how I sync my TE switches (Points)).
 

Gizzy

A gentleman, a scholar, and a railway modeller....
26 Oct 2009
34,047
1,735
60
Cambridgeshire
www.gscalecentral.net
Yes I was going to say that but thought they may be EPL ones as he has DCC, would swopping wires work as well with EPL ones?
Yes, the DCC decoder gives out a DC pulse to the motor, either positive or negative.

Exactly the same as using a switch....
 

Neil Robinson

Registered
24 Oct 2009
9,436
542
N W Leicestershire
Yes, the DCC decoder gives out a DC pulse to the motor, either positive or negative.

Exactly the same as using a switch....
I suspect the decoder plugs into the point (turnout) motor so the only way to swap the connections is to turn the decoder upside down. Hopefully the decoder design permits this. If not and if it's impractical to swap the motor to the other side (which may not work) I suggest dismantling the motor, removing the internal magnet from the rotor and rotating the magnet through 180 degrees before reinstalling the magnet in the rotor and reassembling the motor.
 

Gizzy

A gentleman, a scholar, and a railway modeller....
26 Oct 2009
34,047
1,735
60
Cambridgeshire
www.gscalecentral.net
I suspect the decoder plugs into the point (turnout) motor so the only way to swap the connections is to turn the decoder upside down. Hopefully the decoder design permits this. If not and if it's impractical to swap the motor to the other side (which may not work) I suggest dismantling the motor, removing the internal magnet from the rotor and rotating the magnet through 180 degrees before reinstalling the magnet in the rotor and reassembling the motor.
This is correct for a LGB single decoder, but most point decoders are 4 channel and are wired in.

It is possible to use a decoder output to operate 2 point motors. For the LGB single decoder it is a little more difficult but not impossible, so you could still just swap the wires on one of the motors....
 

phils2um

Phil S
11 Sep 2015
836
355
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Move 1 of the motors to the other side of the point.
Took looking at a LGB turnout and EPL motor design to realize that moving the EPL drive to the other side (which I at one time believed) will not work! With LGB's single channel decoder, 55524, CV 16 60 needs to be changed from the factory default of 16 to 80 to change the direction of throw.

From Mike's description in the original post I believe Jimmy and Gizzy provided the answer. The two leads just need to be swapped at the "slave" EPL motor

Edited to correct the CV number. The correct CV used to change polarity is CV 60 not CV 16.
 
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Mike Bett

Beer, G Gauge, Beer, Cricket, Beer.
14 Apr 2010
135
0
Fallbrook, California.
Thanks for the input guys.
They are EPL switches. The decoder is four switches, not a single.
I did try swapping the wires over, but got a short circuit. Will try again.
I liked the simple idea of swapping sides of the track with the switch, but if it does not work, not worth doing!
Will report progress, or none, later.
 

phils2um

Phil S
11 Sep 2015
836
355
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Hi Mike,
You must have done something really wrong to cause a short. Operating on the theory "a picture is worth a 1000 words"...
This is the wiring logic of how the two EPL drives should be connected to the turnout decoder. The actual physical wiring may be somewhat different but this is the how it is done logically. If one of the turnouts switches opposite to what is wanted just swap the two leads between the orange and white terminals at that EPL drive.
run-around EPL wiring - 1.jpeg

Note that there isn't really a master and slave EPL drive. They both are directly operated by the turnout decoder.
 
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dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
19,128
3,868
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Thanks for the input guys.
They are EPL switches. The decoder is four switches, not a single.
I did try swapping the wires over, but got a short circuit. Will try again.
I liked the simple idea of swapping sides of the track with the switch, but if it does not work, not worth doing!
Will report progress, or none, later.
Best suggestion put wires back as they were. Check working now try moving motor to other side. Will work as the point motor will be in the way you want it and the point will be as expected once you finger push it across to match how the motor now is before refitting the motor.
 

phils2um

Phil S
11 Sep 2015
836
355
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Sorry Jon, you are mistaken. In order for the point motor to work the way Mike wants with the original wiring it needs to be physically rotated 180º. The turnouts are not designed to have the EPL drives attached in this configuration. Like I said in post #9, I originally thought moving the drive to the other side would work too. But, if you get an actual EPL drive out and look how it attaches to the turnout you'll see it still throws in the same direction no matter which side of the turnout the EPL drive is attached to!
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
19,128
3,868
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Sorry Jon, you are mistaken. In order for the point motor to work the way Mike wants with the original wiring it needs to be physically rotated 180º. The turnouts are not designed to have the EPL drives attached in this configuration. Like I said in post #9, I originally thought moving the drive to the other side would work too. But, if you get an actual EPL drive out and look how it attaches to the turnout you'll see it still throws in the same direction no matter which side of the turnout the EPL drive is attached to!
Do you know what, I was wrong ooops sorry.

For clarification here are a couple of pictures, note when point moves to the other side the short bit couples to the tie rod with the point still set to the curve. Oh well should have gone to the loft to check earlier, brain is a fickle thing!
19A62FB6-293C-4C2C-945B-7E197118DBB0.jpeg
3E1E6E88-EACE-486B-921F-6C6A5E4B8092.jpeg
 

muns

Moderator
Staff member
GSC Moderator
Thanks for the input guys.
They are EPL switches. The decoder is four switches, not a single.
I did try swapping the wires over, but got a short circuit. Will try again.
I liked the simple idea of swapping sides of the track with the switch, but if it does not work, not worth doing!
Will report progress, or none, later.

What did you swap? What shorted?

All you should need to do is at ONE of the point motors, swap the wires around (so the one in the orange terminal goes into the white one and the original one in the white terminal now goes into the orange terminal).
 

korm kormsen

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,606
264
What did you swap? What shorted?

All you should need to do is at ONE of the point motors, swap the wires around (so the one in the orange terminal goes into the white one and the original one in the white terminal now goes into the orange terminal).
sorry, but that can not work.
you would have the common wire on one switch as "in" and on the other as "out". = shorting.

as one point shall be turned "left", while the other point shall be turned "right", he needs two seperate orange wires. one with a diode forward, the other with the diode backwards (and for switching back the other way around.)

left-right.JPG
 

muns

Moderator
Staff member
GSC Moderator
sorry, but that can not work.
you would have the common wire on one switch as "in" and on the other as "out". = shorting.

as one point shall be turned "left", while the other point shall be turned "right", he needs two seperate orange wires. one with a diode forward, the other with the diode backwards (and for switching back the other way around.)

View attachment 281022
Korm,

The original poster (Mike) is using DCC and a 4 channel switch decoder, not a manual switch (with an AC supply). The point motors are wired in parallel. And just like if you find in your example that one motor does not operate in the desired direction, swapping the connections at the point motor will indeed reverse it.

After all, they are just a simple motor that is limited to 180deg movement.
 
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dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
19,128
3,868
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Korm,

The original poster (Mike) is using DCC and a 4 channel switch decoder, not a manual switch (with an AC supply). The point motors are wired in parallel. And just like if you find in your example that one motor does not operate in the desired direction, swapping the connections at the point motor will indeed reverse it.

After all, they are just a simple motor that is limited to 180deg movement.
Have to say I did wonder about what Korm was saying. Do not have a Switch Decoder (we tried them on the Ruschbahn and could not properly understand them (LGB MTS ones)), otherwise I would have done a test setup today to see. But not needed now that the Massoth master has spoken!
 

korm kormsen

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,606
264
Korm,

The original poster (Mike) is using DCC and a 4 channel switch decoder, not a manual switch (with an AC supply). The point motors are wired in parallel. And just like if you find in your example that one motor does not operate in the desired direction, swapping the connections at the point motor will indeed reverse it.

After all, they are just a simple motor that is limited to 180deg movement.
i need an explanation. (or i'm lost)
the 4 channel switch decoder, what does it give as output? DC or halfwave AC?
 

Gizzy

A gentleman, a scholar, and a railway modeller....
26 Oct 2009
34,047
1,735
60
Cambridgeshire
www.gscalecentral.net
i need an explanation. (or i'm lost)
the 4 channel switch decoder, what does it give as output? DC or halfwave AC?
A DC pulse, of which the time base can be adjusted by a CV setting. The pulse is either positive or negative according to the direction you set the point....