LGB Brunig rack loco and smoke

[HGLR]

I'm having problems with the 5 volt smoke unit on the LGB 21470 Brunig rack loco fitted with the matching Massoth eMotion XLS sound decoder. Nowhere in the Massoth manual can I find which cv to check that the voltage for the smoke unit is set correctly but I have read somewhere, not in this Forum, that it is cv53, which the manual says controls "Dimming Values" for Function Outputs 1 &2. In default mode cv53 is set to 32, i.e. full track voltage so if it is the correct cv to alter I infer it should be re-set to a value of 5. Before I try to solve the currently non-working smoke unit by replacing it I would like to be sure I am not just going to blow it! Are there other cvs which could affect the smoke unit voltage? For example I have checked cv 50 which is set to 5 and correct for the 5v lights on the loco. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Gizzy]

I've just been reading the data sheet on the XLS. I found the English Ver 2.0 and others here.

http://www.massoth.com/dlbereich/down.php?action=en&kategorie=2&gruppe=7

I'm no expert on these, but I guess you have connected your smoke unit to F1 on the pcb.

CV 53 is the one you adjust for F1 and attachment 4 on the sheet (page 40) seems to suggest a value of 5 will set this to 5 volts as you have summised.

I would check therefore check and ensure that CV 53 is set for 5 and not 32.

Other than that, I would suggest contacting Muns via PM for any help....

 

[muns]

CV53 configures the voltage on A1 (F1) & A2 (F2).

If you want the voltage on both outputs to be approx. 5v set CV53 to 5, 6 or 7.

If you want the voltage on A1 (F1) to be approx. 5v and A2 (F2) to be full voltage set CV53 to 69, 70 or 71.

If you want full voltage on A1 (F1) and approx. 5v on A2 (F2) set CV53 to 132. 133 or 134.

Note I say approx. voltage as it will depend upon the track voltage. i.e.
Setting a value of 5,6 or 7 when the track voltage is 22v will be:
22 / 32 * 5 = 3.4v
22 / 32 * 6 = 4.1v
22 / 32 * 7 = 4.8v
If the track voltage is 24v then
24 / 32 * 5 = 3.75v
24 / 32 * 6 = 4.5v
24 / 31 * 7 = 5.25v

 

[HGLR]

Thanks very much for the prompt advice. It helps to "translate" the less than clear Massoth instructions. I am still assuming the smoke unit is controlled from the F1 function, although confusingly it is operated by Button 7 on the hand-held controller. When the replacement smoke unit arrives I will try again.

 

[Cliff George]

I believe that the LGB 21470 has a DCC interface. Assuming that the XLS has just been plugged into the DCC interface and the smoke unit remains plugged into the LGB board then you are not going to have to worry about the CVs that control, voltage (dimming values).

The LGB electronics will ensure that the the smoke unit only gets 5v, the function outout of the decoder is just used as a switch to turn on or off the 5v to the smoke generator. It doesn't matter what voltage the decoder function output has.

This is of course not true if the LGB electronics has been removed, and everything has been wired directly to the decoder.

 

[HGLR]

No joy yet! The loco does have a DCC interface but I confess to not having opened the "innards" at this stage. Assuming the smoke unit is still connected to the LGB board, if I reduce cv 53 to 5, which I have, will this reduce the power to the LGB board and inhibt its ability to output correctly to the smoke unit?

Can I check by cutting out the smoke unit and putting a voltmeter across the wires? Presumably I should see 5 vots approx if all is as it should be when I can then blame the smoke unit and replace it. My learning curve with decoders and cvs is getting steeper and your help is invaluable.

 

[Nemo]

I think you need to open up the loco to see whats inside. If a Massoth XLS has been fitted then there is a chance that the old LGB board has been taken out altogether, just leaving the XLS to do all the work. If the original LGB board is still there and the smoke unit is plugged into this then altering the cv settings on the Massoth chip wont achieve anything and its likely that the smoke unit is defunct. You can trace the wires from the smoke unit to the terminals and put a volt meter across to see what reading you.ve got. Try to take some photos and post on here, it helps a lot.

 

[Loco]

Thanks very much for the prompt advice. It helps to "translate" the less than clear Massoth instructions. I am still assuming the smoke unit is controlled from the F1 function, although confusingly it is operated by Button 7 on the hand-held controller. When the replacement smoke unit arrives I will try again.

That's why Muns calls the outputs A1 and A2 (Ausgang in Germen means output). You can assign whichever F-key on the remote controller to either output (A1-A16).

 

[HGLR]

As suggested photo attached. No LGB decoder and smoke unit connected to A1 and white cable joined with others to 24v terminal. Now what?

 

[Nemo]

Put a test meter across the two wire terminals to the smoke unit, A1 and 24V. Touching the metal screws on the decoder should do it, you should have a reading of about 5V (with the smoke unit switched on) if thats the case the smoke unit is buggered.

 

[HGLR]

Could not get a reading on those two terminals but immediately after testing the loco would not work at all! Using the Sprog it appeared that a number of cvs had been re-set with unusual values such as minus 1. Reset them back to factory default with cv 53 for A1 set to 5v and loco working again but still no smoke. Puzzled!!!

 

[Neil Robinson]

Any chance of temporarily replacing the smoke unit with a known good 5V bulb as an aid to diagnosis?

 

[HGLR]

Smoking like a Sistine Chapel chimney! The 5v test bulb worked, with the F7 button confirming its on/off operation. A new smoke unit fitted and bingo.

My guess is that the first unit failed because the cv had been left too high when the Massoth decoder was fitted. The second unit, which was new, must have been simply defective from the outset and just caused confusion, transferring blame unjustly to the decoder.

My thanks to all who helped achieve a result.