LGB 20273 - Pulse Smoke Unit help

PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
26,166
Tamworth, Staffs.
As it is a taller stack.. Perhaps the CV to set the heater temperature could be increased SLIGHTLY (do not want to deform the stack!

Or,

Maybe, once it is out... I believe there is a 'high-volume' (hotter) element available?

PhilP.
 
P

phils2um

Phil S
11 Sep 2015
596
Ann Arbor, Michigan
I didn't completely disassemble my LD1 but here are some of the secrets to getting into it.
First, remove the stack. Rotate it 90 degrees counter-clockwise to allign the tabs with the keyways and lift straight up.

LD1 secrets - 1.jpeg

Next gently pry the tops off the steam dome and sand dome.

LD1 secrets - 1 _1_.jpeg

This will expose the screws holding the domes in place.

LD1 secrets - 1 _2_.jpeg LD1 secrets - 1 _5_.jpeg

Undo the screws and the domes can be removed. This reveals another secret - the locking pins molded in the bottom of the domes.

LD1 secrets - 1 _6_.jpeg LD1 secrets - 1 _3_.jpeg

To remove the smoke box this screw located above the lead truck needs to be removed.

LD1 secrets - 1 _4_.jpeg

The smoke box can now be gently worked free by lifting slightly and pulling it forward. This is what it looks like.

LD1 secrets - 1 _9_.jpeg

Here is a view of the front end of the pulsed smoke unit.

LD1 secrets - 1 _7_.jpeg

The rest of the disassembly is relatively straight forward by removing screws on the bottom that secure the saddle tanks and cab in place.

Hope this is helpful.
 
Last edited:
LGB333

LGB333

Active Member
Hello everyone,

I have purchased a LGB 20273 Rhatia
And while it works wonderfully, I have the feeling my smoke unit is a little sporadic.

It will work fine for a while, but then some of the liquid fluid seems to block the inside of the funnel.
I have been using LGB branded smoke fluid as instructed.

Looking inside (after removing the funnel) there seems to be some kind of plastic blocking half the output.
I'm not sure if this is to help direct smoke to the cylinders.

20200609_222142.jpg



If anyone can confirm if this is correct or not, I'd deeply appreciate it.
This is my first Pulse smoke locomotive, so I don't know if this is normal or not.

Thank you for reading,
AusrailQLD
Hi AusrailQLD - I own an LGB/Marklin 20274 RhB Heidi Steamer that's similar to your LGB/Marklin 20273 Rhatia Steamer. First, I'm not clear reading the postings whether you're running your loco on DC/Analog or DCC/Digital. If you're running DCC, I suggest you turn off the primary mfx protocol in the decoder. Change the decoder's CV50 default setting of 10 (all protcols activated: mfx/DCC/Analog) to CV=2 (DCC/Analog only)........you can verify the setting in your LGB 20273 Owner's Manual. LGB/Marklin suggests turning off the protocols that you don't use to prevent potential conflicts between the three protocols.

Second, I looked at your loco's Owner's Manual Parts Diagram on the last few pages and the smoke unit looks like a regular, non-pulse unit. My loco's Parts Diagram shows a smoker unit very similar to the shape of the Massoth DCC Round Boiler Pulse Generator that I install into LGB Locomotive DCC conversion projects for customers. So, if you bought the loco new, it appears that your loco doesn't have a pulse smoke capability........if you bought it used from someone, perhaps they installed a pulsed smoker in it.

Please respond to my points so we all can provide further assistance for your issue.
 
AusrailQLD

AusrailQLD

Registered
10 Jul 2020
12
32
Australia
Hi LGB333,

I run the loco on MRC DCC system, so far I haven't had a problem with MFX conflicted.
(Same with the Rhb 2/4 electric loco.)

The loco does come with a factory installed round top pulse smoke unit, the LGB parts manual is inaccurate.
This is confirmed with Phils2um who also owns the same loco.
And shown in a few youtube videos in another post with over owners.

At the moment I've concluded the blocked funnel problem is due to a tiny short piece of clear plastic tub used to bridged the gap between the base of the funnel and the smoke unit.
Haven't figured out how to fix this yet, except I need to somehow make the hole larger.
 
P

phils2um

Phil S
11 Sep 2015
596
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Hi Tom,
Thanks for pointing out the parts diagram for your Heidi lok. I've been trying to find the part number for the LD1 Rhatia, 20273 smoke generator. The manual is correct for the Rhatia, just the parts diagram was not updated. Probably because the 20273 was a "limited" run and the first time Märklin installed the pulsed smoke generator in this style loco. I do suspect these smoke generators were specially made for Märklin by Massoth. Although physically identical in appearance to the Massoth 8415001 the electronics are probably simplified to mate with the mfx decoder. The replacement part no. E297811 price of €52.50 is not consistent with price of Massoth's full blown decoder equipped smoke unit.

I'll be ordering a replacement for my Rhatia now that I know the part number with some certainty.
 
LGB333

LGB333

Active Member
Hi Tom,
Thanks for pointing out the parts diagram for your Heidi lok. I've been trying to find the part number for the LD1 Rhatia, 20273 smoke generator. The manual is correct for the Rhatia, just the parts diagram was not updated. Probably because the 20273 was a "limited" run and the first time Märklin installed the pulsed smoke generator in this style loco. I do suspect these smoke generators were specially made for Märklin by Massoth. Although physically identical in appearance to the Massoth 8415001 the electronics are probably simplified to mate with the mfx decoder. The replacement part no. E297811 price of €52.50 is not consistent with price of Massoth's full blown decoder equipped smoke unit.

I'll be ordering a replacement for my Rhatia now that I know the part number with some certainty.
Hi Phil - Interesting information. I'll share some thoughts and my experience about the newer Marklin/LGB locomotives equipped with their proprietary mfx technology.

First, I doubt Massoth made a unique pulsed smoker for Marklin/LGB's mfx technology, that would be very experience design and production effort for a limited market. But I bet Massoth gave Marklin a nice price break for buying the Massoth DCC Round Boiler Pulsed Smokers in bulk. There are only three versions of the Massoth pulsed smokers: DCC only Round Boiler version; DCC only rectangle version; and the DC/Analog only rectangle version. This is an example, I believe, why Marklin suggests that hobbyists without the mfx protocol in their DCC Command Stations turn off the mfx feature to help prevent operational conflicts between mfx, dcc, and analog protocols, and who knows, maybe harm to their circuit boards. Marklin/LGB designed their mfx decoders' technologies to be functional in the following priority order: First mfx, if none, use dcc, and finally analog. So, perhaps the safest way to preserve a LGB loco's electronics with these mfx/dcc/analog designed decoders is for DCC-only users to turn off the mfx protocols.

Second, I only use the Round Boiler version in the LGB locomotive DCC sound conversions I do since it works the best of all three. Last year I checked with Massoth Technical folks whether operating a loco equipped with a DCC/DC Massoth decoder would harm the DCC smoke unit when the loco is operated in Analog mode, and they indicated no.......the smoker just won't work. By the way, if you'd like to see a nice demo of two Massoth Pulsed Smokers I installed into customer LGB locomotives along with ESU LokSound 5 XL Sound Decoders, go to my Website, demo videos at the bottom of the page. Interestingly, for the ESU decoders, I had to reverse the chuff CV setting in the Massoth smokers so they would be in sync with the primary chuff sound from the loco.

Good luck ordering the pulsed smoker for your loco from Marklin/LGB.......I've found that Marklin doesn't provide parts support as well as the original Ernst Paul Lehmann patentwerk company. Specifically, they don't include very many part numbers in their loco parts diagrams, and then don't stock the parts very long after the loco's production run. Please let us know whether you're successful getting one from Marklin or must order the Massoth pulsed smoker.

Luckily, since I'm a Marklin USA Authorized LGB Service Center, Marklin USA has ordered a replacement circuit board from Marklin Germany that's not part numbered in the loco's parts diagram that I need for repairing a customer's LGB Euro Mallet. If I couldn't get one, then I'd have to replace it with either a Massoth or ESU DCC Sound Decoder.
 
Last edited:
LGB333

LGB333

Active Member
As it is a taller stack.. Perhaps the CV to set the heater temperature could be increased SLIGHTLY (do not want to deform the stack!

Or,

Maybe, once it is out... I believe there is a 'high-volume' (hotter) element available?

PhilP.
PhilP - Massoth doesn't make a "high volume" heater element. On the Massoth.de Products Website there are only three replacement heater elements, one for each of their three smokers.
 
LGB333

LGB333

Active Member
Hi LGB333,

I run the loco on MRC DCC system, so far I haven't had a problem with MFX conflicted.
(Same with the Rhb 2/4 electric loco.)

The loco does come with a factory installed round top pulse smoke unit, the LGB parts manual is inaccurate.
This is confirmed with Phils2um who also owns the same loco.
And shown in a few youtube videos in another post with over owners.

At the moment I've concluded the blocked funnel problem is due to a tiny short piece of clear plastic tub used to bridged the gap between the base of the funnel and the smoke unit.
Haven't figured out how to fix this yet, except I need to somehow make the hole larger.
Okay, it sounds like you're right, that a piece of the plastic tubing may have become dislodged from the smoke stack that's blocking the smoke exist. So you'll need to do some dissassembly of the loco to get access to it. I've attached a photo of the connection device I use to install a Massoth pulsed smoker into an LGB Mogul's Smoke Box that includes a plastic base into the smoker, and then the plastic tube attached to both the base and to the smoke stack.........it's all held in place by pressure from a plastic plate I slide under the smoker (not shown in photo). Note that 1/3rd of the large lead weight inside the Mogul's boiler must be cut off to make space for the smoker, and the weight is then redistributed to other places inside the Mogul. It's a heck of a lot of work to install one of these smokers to either an LGB Mogul or LGB Forney locomotive with the lead weights' cuts and redistribution........I have to get dressed up in my hazmat gear for cutting the lead.
 

Attachments

Last edited: