How did G scale come about, please?

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Sarah Winfield

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How (or why) did G scale come about? Why wasn't an existing system, i.e. 0 gauge simply adopted for the garden? (yes, I do ask silly questions)

Thanks,

Sarah
 
This might be worth a read (although it's written very much from an American viewpoint):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGB_(trains)

There's a lot of information out there on the internet, but I will warn you that not all stuff related to "LGB" is about trains!

There certainly are O gauge garden railways out there - I know of at least one near me.

The track gauge (45mm) has existed as Gauge 1 since the early part of the 20th century and indeed there are some exquisite (and expensive) standard gauge models available.

Personally I think the larger gauge and scale allows for a bit more durability and "chunkiness" outdoors, especially when the product range is specifically manufactured to be weather resistant. LGB trains mostly represent narrow gauge models and so a larger scale can be used compared to standard Gauge 1, again adding to the robustness. Being models of small prototypes they're more suitable for the tight radius curves adopted as the minimum radius of LGB.

There are similar narrow gauge concepts which run on O gauge track - try searching for 16mm scale as an example.
https://www.16mm.org.uk/newsite/default.html
 
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ntpntpntp said:
This might be worth a read (although it's written very much from an American viewpoint):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGB_(trains)
Click to expand...
Re-reading the history of LGB on wikipedia reminds me how financially precarious the whole model railway business is. You could say just like the prototype! :)

EDIT: no idea why this appeared three times

EDIT: and then one copy mysteriously disappeared
 
Hi Sarah. G scale is bit of a strange beast because as a 'scale' it doesn't really exist. It's more a concept!

Scale is the ratio between the model and real life. In the world of G that can be 16mm/ft, 15mm/ft, 1/24th, 1/32nd or a host of others. Gauge is the size of the track - in the G world, usually 45mm or 32mm. Also known as gauge 1 or 0 gauge, although usually only when related to where the track is supposed to be standard gauge (four foot eight and a half inches). In our G world, the track can represent 3', metre gauge or smaller too.

Confused yet?

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth a company in Germany called Lehmann brought out a large scale railway system which ran on 45mm gauge track. They termed this Lehmann Grosse Bahn or Lehmann's Big Railway. Regrettably, LGB had what's known as a rubber ruler in that they adapted dimensions to suit their needs, so that everything they produced could run together, even if the scales were widely different. Other mass manufacturers did much the same.

So it's probably easier to say that G means either Gross (Large) Scales, or Garden Scale (although it's not limited to the garden!). It covers a wide range of scales and gauges, the only common thing is that it's big!
 
This link may also be of some interest, Sarah, as it contains more info on the Ernst Paul Lehmann company and Wolfgang and Eberhard Richter prior to the launch of LGB in 1968:
http://www.tcawestern.org/lgb.htm

When the Richter Brothers decided to build a model (toy?) train system that would be big, chunky and work outdoors as well as in, they chose the 45mm track gauge that was (as Nick says above) already existing for Gauge 1 models - but they decided they wanted their trains to be larger than the 1/32 scale Gauge 1 models, so they chose to build them to a (nominal) scale of 1/22.5, which made the 45mm gauge track scale out as representing the one-metre-gauge lines used in a number of European Narrow Gauge railways. Since their launch in 1968 with a version of the very Stainz loco that you have (though the first ones had a different and rather noisy gearbox mechanism and are commonly called "growlers" here, or "Heuler" (howler) in Germany), LGB - Lehmann Gross Bahn - is still the largest part of what we now know as "G Scale" trains, at least in Europe.

From the start, LGB have had what they called the "Radius 1 Rule" - which means that EVERYTHING they ever produced MUST be capable of running round their minimum-radius (R1) curves, which are approx. 2 ft radius or a 4ft circle - of course some very large locos and rolling stock may look a bit silly doing so, with massive overhangs front and rear, but the important thing is that they are technically capable of it.

There are regular discussions here and practically everywhere else that model railways are discussed about what "G scale" actually MEANS - and the answer is not a simple one - it's not really a "scale" at all, but the one common factor is the 45mm gauge track - beyond that, the actual scale of the models can be pretty much anything from 1/29 (used for some big American stock) to about 1/18 - and it's even arguable that models made in 7/8ths scale (about 1/13) could be considered as part of the G scale family too.

Jon.

EDIT: Martino posted while I was in the middle of typing this, so apologies for any duplicated info and opinions but we're all pretty much saying the same thing! ;)
 
This is an interesting thread. Regardless of how or why G Scale came about, I'm certainly glad that it did. I used to have a very large HO layout on the second floor of my barn. (Not outdoors, but certainly in the back yard, LOL). I reached the point where HO gauge was just too small for me to work with anymore, both due to my eyesight and my increasing loss of patience when things would break down and stop working.

With G Scale (Yes, I'm aware that there are several ratios involved) I can see what I'm doing and the trains keep running. I've found that G Scale rolling stock is far more reliable than HO. I can't speak for other scales, like N, since I never worked with it.

Nonetheless, I'm glad that we have G Scale. It's terrific.

GNM
 
G gauge is more accurate than scale in a way as G is generally for assorted scales on 45mm track.
I've run 1/13.5(7/8ths scale), 1/19 (16mm scale more commonly on 32mm track), 1/22, 1/24, 1/26, 1/29 and 1/32 scale models under the G banner! I know some get very heated but G for Garden or Gross makes sense to me and then it's down to personal taste whether it's just about train running or a full detailed accurate layout. The beauty is if your mind is open you can enjoy all the variety it offers with friends at different times.
 
G...Good times with Good freinds
 
G for Gross, as in Lehmann Gross Bahn.

The NMRA have climbed on the band wagon, and defined some 'scales' running on 45mm gauge.

F 1:20.3 for 3' gauge trains.
G 1:22.5, as in LGB.
H 1:24 (as in Half inch to the foot) for 3'6" gauge.
 
Without LGB's input in the early days, we might not have the garden railway scene in the USA that we do today. Yes the Brits were doing it in gauge 1 and 16mil narrow gauge(both wonderful scales to me), but LGB gave the kick start that the scale needed in the USA. I believe that early ad's in the modeling press they called it K scale. I got my start with LGB and have stayed with it most of my life now, with only a few pieces from other brands, notably Kalamazoo for my USA prototype models. As despite LGB's best efforts, the moguls do not like R1 curves and will slow in them. Thier R1 rule was set in stone as they wanted every model to be able to run on even the oldest garden railways that used nothing but R1 curves, built long before wider radius curves came out. I find all my European models run perfectly on my tight radius curves. I have a whole slew of early Garden Railways magazines along with LGB's Telegram and the BTO club magazine, its really neat to see how far the hobby came, and how quickly it evolved from those early days. From only a couple of USA prototype engines(Americanized Stainz, Cooke Mogul, Kalamazoo 0-4-0 and 4-4-0) were the main options. Now we have quite the selection either new or on the second hand market. Live steam did the same thing, from very simple models from Roundhouse, Pearse and Mamod to what we see today. Seems live steam is weathering the slump in the hobby quite well. If you get a chance to pick up some very early Garden Railways or other early issues of the G scale magazines, I highly recommend it. There are so many little cottage industries that made stuff back then, and are gone now, makes the hunt on ebay and shows more exciting. Mike
 
Gavin Sowry said:
G for Gross, as in Lehmann Gross Bahn.

The NMRA have climbed on the band wagon, and defined some 'scales' running on 45mm gauge.

F 1:20.3 for 3' gauge trains.
G 1:22.5, as in LGB.
H 1:24 (as in Half inch to the foot) for 3'6" gauge.
Click to expand...

I reckon that the 1:29 stuff on 45mm should be I, the letter I being close enough to the number 1, 1 Gauge being 1:32 (depending on whose classification you follow). Simple to remember.... F,G,H,I in ascending order of the scales........
 
K-Line was an American producer working in O gauge.
 
Would I be correct in assuming that G gauge has been adopted in the US to a greater degree than in the UK?

0 gauge seems to be quite prominent in the UK with some wonderful examples of kits whereas G gauge seems to be mainly proprietary equipment.

Having built locomotives and stock in 0 gauge there doesn't seem to be a range of product for the kit builder in G gauge and consequently there aren't the components to scratch build i.e. axle boxes, brake gear, chassis', wheels, etc.

Is this the same for the US please?

Sarah
 
There is quite a big O gauge following in the US although a few of the smaller manufacturers have gone in the last few years there are the big two, MTH and Atlas, and a large coarse scale Lionel following. I think the proportions of market share are similar to Britain.
There is quite a large building accessories market for UK G although Brandbright closing will leave a fair sized hole. Garden Railway Specialists do a range of kits to use commercial and their own chassis and sell a lot of the parts as separate castings. There is also a lot of useful stuff in their G64 range.
 
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