Help with LGB MTS Decoder

L

LGB-Phil

Registered
9 Dec 2019
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Canvey Island, Essex
I have LGB 20705 Sammler Edition Zillertal Set with the loco "Raimund". It already had a selection of sounds included but I had a Massoth l decoder installed professionally as I understood I would have more control over the digital sounds using MTS. In the description it states:

The locomotive features: - weather-resistant construction - opening cab doors - four-way power control switch - protected gearbox with seven-pole Bühler motor - six powered wheels - one traction tire - eight power pickups - digital electronic sound: - synchronized steam chuffs - bell and whistle sounds - brake sounds (with Multi-Train System) - auxiliary blower, safety valve and steam sounds - coal shoveling sound - conductor announcement (with Multi-Train System) - volume control - remote control of sound features (with Multi-Train System) - voltage stabilization circuit - smoke generator - automatic directional lanterns - one multi-purpose socket with circuit breaker - length: 240 mm (9.4 in) - weight: 2480 g (5.5 lb).

I have the MTS 3 setup and have tried using the Function buttons to operate various sounds but the only control I have is the whistle and the lights. The loco has a sequence of sounds but I can't access any of them separately, eg bell, conductors announcements, sounds on/off, etc. I contacted the dealer who fitted the decoder but he told me that's what it does. What do I have to do to get the full range of sounds please?
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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814
Tamworth, Staffs.
You probably need 'serial pulse string' (think that is what the Massoth manual calls it enabling..
CV 49 from memory, but away from all my notes at the moment..

Try pressing the '1' key twice in fairly rapid succession - Did that sound the bell?
 
L

LGB-Phil

Registered
9 Dec 2019
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0
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Canvey Island, Essex
You probably need 'serial pulse string' (think that is what the Massoth manual calls it enabling..
CV 49 from memory, but away from all my notes at the moment..

Try pressing the '1' key twice in fairly rapid succession - Did that sound the bell?
Function 1 operates the whistle which does work. F9 does operate the lights. No other F buttons do anything. When I contacted the fitter he told me that the bell would be operated by track magnets, but the manual also says that these features work with the MTS controller.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
24,353
814
Tamworth, Staffs.
Press the '1' key twice.. one pause two.

The older soundcards in LGB loco's used (in effect) a string of 'F1' commands to fire functions, so if you press '1' a number of times, you will get that sound. - Enabling the serial pulse string option in CV 49 should do this automatically for you, but there is a slight delay as the sound cad 'counts' the pulses.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Phil he has had a Massoth Sound card installed, I wonder if it is a very new one that may be incompatible with MTS 3 system that he has? Any thoughts on those lines anyone?
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
24,353
814
Tamworth, Staffs.
Phil he has had a Massoth Sound card installed, I wonder if it is a very new one that may be incompatible with MTS 3 system that he has? Any thoughts on those lines anyone?
NO.
He say's he HAD sounds, and has had a Massoth L installed..

This is a classic serial pulse string problem, but I am away from my notes.
 
wandgrudd

wandgrudd

Registered
24 Oct 2009
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42
....
As per above CV49 to value 11. and it will work perfect been mentioned loads of times on this forum with the same issue.

credit to Muns

 
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PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
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Tamworth, Staffs.
I'm confused reading this thread, I agree the symptoms sound like the decoder is set to serial... but aren't that decoder and the MTS III system capable of parallel functions?

Greg
Yes Greg, but this is an older LGB model, with the 'big' LGB soundboard.. These needed serial pulses for 'F2' upwards..
Hence asking the OP to press the F1 key twice, and see if the bell sounded.

OP stated he had a L decoder (drive+functions) not an LS (which has sound as well).

PhilP.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
15,706
776
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
NO.
He say's he HAD sounds, and has had a Massoth L installed..

This is a classic serial pulse string problem, but I am away from my notes.
Oops sorry my mistake Phil.
 
D

Dan

Registered
28 Jan 2010
260
16
Eastern MA
The MTS system when running a new loco (read decoder) will default to serial operation. Also the newer decoders come set to 28/128 speed steps and LGB is 14 steps unless one uses the optional Massoth Navigator. You need to depress F9 to switch to parallel operation. The command station and the decoder need to match on speed step settings and on serial vs parallel operation. Decoder CV 29 is where you program the decoder for speed steps.
 
LGB333

LGB333

Active Member
NO.
He say's he HAD sounds, and has had a Massoth L installed..

This is a classic serial pulse string problem, but I am away from my notes.
Philp - Maybe you or another Massoth expert can offer some insight into a MTS II 55005 Central Station issue using a Massoth XLS Sound Decoder I installed into a person's Stainz loco. He has both the 55016 and 55015 Universal Remotes. The problem: I thought he had the MTS III system so I programmed CV29=6 for 28 Speed Steps and CV49=19. When he received the loco, he stated it worked on his MTS system but the 18 volt headlight would not work. So he used his LGB 55015 on a programming track to change the CVs to CV29=4 and CV49=3, the default settings for 14 Speed Steps. The headlight still will not activate on his Remove using #9 button. So he took the loco to a local train store and they also reset CV29 and CV49 to the factory-default settings and the light worked there on their DCC system. He took it home and again no light activation. The irony is that six months I sold this person an LGB Diesel loco that I had upgraded with an XLS Sound Decoder and programmed left the CV29 and CV49 factory-default settings and on that loco he can operate the headlight and taillight fine! I've exhausted all my skills in trying to help the person to get the loco's headlight to work for him on his old MTS II system......any suggestions to fix this problem?
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
24,353
814
Tamworth, Staffs.
Tom,
If you can get both loco's you can check CV's 29 and 49 are set the same on both loco's. - Note original values, in case you need to go back to them!
Do BOTH loco's use the screw-in bulbs? - Also, do the bulbs work? Simple, but even I have overlooked a blown bulb! :rolleyes:
If the Speed Step Setting on the loco and the controller are not set the same, the lights will 'flash', depending on the speed of the loco.
If one loco uses wired-ended push-in bulbs; Do they have flat ends? - A flat-ended bulb is (usually) 5V, and a round-ended bulb is 18-24V.
NOTE: A new pack of 5V bulbs I purchased, had rounded ends! :(
There are a number of CV's which will control which button switches the lights off/on. A dimming-value (to reduce the voltage to the bulbs, and whether the bulbs are lit all the time, or are off/on depending on direction..

(now I have to find a manual to double-check the values..) - Got it! :)

CV 50 is the light dimming value 0-32 - Start low, and work up!
5V bulbs try 5
19V bulbs try 26
24V bulbs try 32
You can adjust these a little to suit your controller and how bright you want the lights. - Bright lights will not last so long.

CV 52 Front light command: set to 128 (on forward, controlled by light key)
CV 53 Rear light command: set to 64 (on reverse, controlled by light key)

Try that for a start..

PhilP.
 
Last edited:
LGB333

LGB333

Active Member
Tom,
If you can get both loco's you can check CV's 29 and 49 are set the same on both loco's. - Note original values, in case you need to go back to them!
Do BOTH loco's use the screw-in bulbs? - Also, do the bulbs work? Simple, but even I have overlooked a blown bulb! :rolleyes:
If the Speed Step Setting on the loco and the controller are not set the same, the lights will 'flash', depending on the speed of the loco.
If one loco uses wired-ended push-in bulbs; Do they have flat ends? - A flat-ended bulb is (usually) 5V, and a round-ended bulb is 18-24V.
NOTE: A new pack of 5V bulbs I purchased, had rounded ends! :(
There are a number of CV's which will control which button switches the lights off/on. A dimming-value (to reduce the voltage to the bulbs, and whether the bulbs are lit all the time, or are off/on depending on direction..

(now I have to find a manual to double-check the values..) - Got it! :)

CV 50 is the light dimming value 0-32 - Start low, and work up!
5V bulbs try 5
19V bulbs try 26
24V bulbs try 32
You can adjust these a little to suit your controller and how bright you want the lights. - Bright lights will not last so long.

CV 52 Front light command: set to 128 (on forward, controlled by light key)
CV 53 Rear light command: set to 64 (on reverse, controlled by light key)

Try that for a start..

PhilP.

Philp - Appreciate the reply but I believe I covered all your points in my posting. Except I didn't specifically state that the Stainz loco and tender use the older 18 volt screw-in base type lamps and I did set the XLS Decoder accordingly, CV50=25, and of course I tested the units on my Piko/Massoth DCC system and everything, including the lights, worked fine.

When the person received the Stainz and Tender, everything worked on his MTS II system except the lights. The person used his LGB 55015 Universal Remote on a Programming Track to reset the XLS and XL decoders in the Stainz and tender to the factory defaults (CV29=4; CV49=3) and that should have made the lights workable on the person's MTS II system, lights still didn't work. Then he took the Stainz and tender to a local train store and they also reset CV29 and 49 back to the factory defaults (CV29=4; CV49=3) and they then tested the two units on their DCC system and they worked fine, including the lights. But then when the person took the Stainz and tender home after the trains store sucessfully reset the CVs and tried operating the Stainz and the tender again on his MTS II system layout, they worked fine (movement & sound) but still the headlight on the Stainz and the taillight on the tender would not come on.......he pushes Button #9 on his Remote. It's something wrong with his MTS II system and maybe 18 volt lights. But, as I previously indicated, I sold him another LGB loco six months ago with an installed Massoth XLS DCC Sound Decoder using the default settings CV29=4; CV49=3), that loco works fine on his MTS II system, but it has the usual 5 volt push pin lights. Again, there's no burned out bulbs, they worked fine when I installed the decoder and they worked fine in the train store. The bulbs also come on when the person operates the Stainz and tender in Analog/DC power mode.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
24,353
814
Tamworth, Staffs.
Hang on..
Let's get a handle on what he has, please?

Loco:
A Stainz AND a tender?
XLS in the Stainz, and an XL(?) in the tender?

Control:
MTS II - do ALL units have a 'P' denoting parallel.

Bulbs:
All 18V and all work analogue?

If there are TWO loco's (read decoders) each will need to be programmed separately. - You are not able to guarantee both decoders have/will take a command, if they are both on the programming track.

If there are (in effect) two loco's, then I presume the XLS in the Stainz runs the front light, and the XL in the tender runs the rear light?

We really need to know what CV's 3, 29, 49 are set to in each decoder, as a minimum. - Who is to say what the values actually are, if several different people have been changing things?

Sorry if I have misunderstood any of the postings, hence wanting to get a handle on 'what and where'.

PhilP.
 
LGB333

LGB333

Active Member
Hang on..
Let's get a handle on what he has, please? PHILP - MY REPONSES TO YOUR QUESTIONS ARE ANNOTATED IN BOLD AFTER EACH ONE. TOM

Loco:
A Stainz AND a tender?
XLS in the Stainz, and an XL(?) in the tender? YES

Control:
MTS II - do ALL units have a 'P' denoting parallel. I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE OPERATION OF THE MTS II SYSTEM. I'D HAVE TO ASK THE GENTLEMAN, WHO LIVES IN CANADA AND I'M IN WASHINGTON DC AREA, THAT QUESTION.

Bulbs:
All 18V and all work analogue? YES

If there are TWO loco's (read decoders) each will need to be programmed separately. - You are not able to guarantee both decoders have/will take a command, if they are both on the programming track. I'M VERY EXPERIENCED IN PROGRAMMING DECODERS. HE ONLY PUT THE SINGLE STAINZ LOCO ON HIS LGB 55015 REMOTE/PROGRAMMING TRACK WHEN HE TRIED TO CHANGE CV29 AND CV49 BACK TO MASSOTH DEFAULTS. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE TRAIN STORE PUT THEM ON INDIVIDUALLY OR NOT......IF THEY'RE A TRAIN STORE THAT HAS A DCC SYSTEM YOU WOULD HOPE THEY KNOW TO DO ONE DECODER PROGRAM AT A TIME.

12-15-2019 UPDATE: I ASKED THE GENTLEMAN IN CANADA WHETHER THE TORONTO TRAINS STORE PUT BOTH THE STAINZ AND TENDER ONTO THE PROGRAMMING TRACK AT THE SAME TIME AND HE SAID YES. I EXPLAINED THAT EACH UNIT NEEDS TO BE PUT ON THE PROGRAMMING TRACK SEPARATELY TO PROGRAM THE DECODER AND THAT MAY HAVE PREVENTED THE DECODERS' CV SETTINGS TO BE CHANGED PROPERLY. SO HE'S GOING TO TAKE THE STAINZ AND TENDER BACK TO THE TRAINS STORE AND ASK THEM TO DO PROGRAM EACH ONE SEPARATELY. I ALSO TOLD HIM TO ASK THE STORE PERSON TO THEN DO A CV "READ" OF CV29 AND CV49 TO VERIFY THAT THE CV VALUE DID CHANGE PROPERLY.


If there are (in effect) two loco's, then I presume the XLS in the Stainz runs the front light, and the XL in the tender runs the rear light? YES

We really need to know what CV's 3, 29, 49 are set to in each decoder, as a minimum. - Who is to say what the values actually are, if several different people have been changing things? WHEN I INSTALLED THE XLS AND XL IN THE STAINZ AND TENDER, I DID NOT CHANGE THE DEFAULT CV3=3 SETTING. I DID CHANGE THE STAINZ CV2=5 AND THE TENDER CV2=1 DECODERS SO MOTORS WOULD OPERATE IN PARALLEL SPEED. THERE'S NO WAY TO VERIFY WHAT CV29 AND CV49 SETTINGS ARE WITHOUT THE PERSON TAKING THEM BACK TO THE TRAIN STORE. HE'S AN OLDER GENTLEMAN WHO WON'T WANT TO TAKE THEM BACK TO TORANTO AGAIN AND SAYS HE CAN LIVE WITHOUT THE LIGHTS WORKING. I OFFERED FOR HIM TO SHIP THEM BACK TO ME AND I'D RE-PROGRAM THEM BUT HE DOESN'T WANT TO PAY FOR THE SHIPPING AND IMPORT DUTIES AGAIN.

Sorry if I have misunderstood any of the postings, hence wanting to get a handle on 'what and where'.

PhilP.
Below is a photo of the Stainz and tender operating in DCC on my test stand. Anyone interested in hearing a Massoth Stainz sound decoder, go to my Website and see the video posted: www.olddominionrailways.com
 

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LGB333

LGB333

Active Member
Greg - The Canadian gentleman has an MTS II system. I erroneously thought he had an MTS III system and thus programmed the XLS and XL decoders for 28 Speed Steps. So that's what he tried to do and failed apparently when he tried to change it back to 14 Speed Steps (CV29 and CV49) using his LGB 55015 Universal Remote on a Programming Track. Since that didn't do the trick, he took both the Stainz and the Tender to a Toranto trains shop and they then tried to change the CVs to CV29=4 and CV49=3. But I'll verify this with him, they may have put both the Stainz and the tender on the programming track at the same time, and thus may not have successfully changed the CV settings.
Tom
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

Registered
8 Mar 2014
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San Diego
www.elmassian.com
I must be missing something obvious, I apologize if I am being dense (thick for our friends in the UK), but as I stated in post 18, what does the MTS II do with the issues the original poster is having? I'm having trouble with components being mentioned that don't follow the OP's issue, in fact I think Post #16 also states the same thing.

Anyway for LGB-Phil, what is the recommendation?

Ahh, I read from front to back again, now I understand, you hijacked the thread with a question of your own, and I assumed you were working on LGB-Phil's issue... my mistake...

I'll just slink away.....