G Rail - or The Garden Railway Show 2019

My45G said:
My sympathy goes to the organisers for a very difficult and thankless task.
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I've been to shows where the big problem has been the organisers themselves..... nice try, but out of their depth.
As with anything you are trying to 'sell', I believe the most important thing is firstly knowing your product.
 
The problem with the "death spiral" I mentioned earlier is that it is VERY hard to break out of.... if the traders have a poor year at a show, the next year there are fewer of them willing to attend, so that year the punters are upset by the lack of trade, and don't bother to go the following year, and so on until what was once a good show disappears up its own fundament (so to speak).

Maybe this is negative, but I want to see the show succeed, because I want to be able to go along and enjoy it (and spend money with the traders)!
I'm afraid I don't have a solution to offer - I don't believe there are any easy ones. The best suggestion I could make would be to join with another established show, but it seems that for some reason the GSS don't want to try that again.
As far as I can recall, the only problem at the joint ALSRM/GSS event mentioned before was that TOO MANY members of the GSS attended and wanted to go to the AGM, and they couldn't all fit in the area it was being held......

Jon.
 
Zerogee said:
The problem with the "death spiral" I mentioned earlier is that it is VERY hard to break out of.... if the traders have a poor year at a show, the next year there are fewer of them willing to attend, so that year the punters are upset by the lack of trade, and don't bother to go the following year, and so on until what was once a good show disappears up its own fundament (so to speak).

Maybe this is negative, but I want to see the show succeed, because I want to be able to go along and enjoy it (and spend money with the traders)!
I'm afraid I don't have a solution to offer - I don't believe there are any easy ones. The best suggestion I could make would be to join with another established show, but it seems that for some reason the GSS don't want to try that again.
As far as I can recall, the only problem at the joint ALSRM/GSS event mentioned before was that TOO MANY members of the GSS attended and wanted to go to the AGM, and they couldn't all fit in the area it was being held......

Jon.
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I totally agree with your comments. There are a few successful shows, Peterborough and Llanfair, which attract diverse visitors. I also enjoyed going to the show at Elsecar, it will be interesting to see if the change of venue to Bradford has any affect on its numbers.

I am not sure that GSS has sufficient numbers visiting their show to warrant it operating independently. I consider the best option is join an established show such as Peterborough or the Great Central as examples which will give the GSS greater coverage. Why not have a 2 day event at Peterborough?

When I attend a show, I also like visit local railway related locations, Peterborough has the Nene Valley Railway close by, Llanfair has the W&LL, Elsecar has the museum etc. This makes for a better day out.

We all want the GSS to succeed especially as the number of shops selling G Scale products continues to reduce forcing many of us to purchase items from abroad.

Martin
 
I’m not a member of GSS but I really should get round to re-joining in order to be supportive.

Could I suggest as an outsider that maybe a stand specifically to show how someone can enter this wonderful hobby would be a good thing? Nowadays there are few easy reasonably priced means of getting into garden railways while there is a very wide choice of types of garden railway that can be achieved. I think this could be confusing and a hurdle to people who might be interested in getting started. Having a couple of experienced people to guide people, maybe with a few leaflets, might help. I guess kind of what the GSS stand does at other exhibitions but with more emphasis on how to get started.

I do try to do my bit for the hobby with the Warley club Hortus Halt layout which we will be taking to a few general shows during the next year. I’ll try to get round to writing a few getting started in the garden handouts to pass to anyone interested when we take this layout out.
 
Not matter what the effort of the gangs organising, it’s never going to work unless we get trade support people only come if they can spend money and without the big names at these shows it just a pointless exercise, there must be money out there as GRS and Chalk Garden rail are going to Llanfair Garden Railway (and it’s just as long a trip for both of them as it is to Nottingham), do we need to kick-start the show again by offering cheaper or even free trade support for one year to try and get the suppliers through the door (not knowing the costs on this not sure how practical this would be).
 
Zerogee said:
As far as I can recall, the only problem at the joint ALSRM/GSS event mentioned before was that TOO MANY members of the GSS attended and wanted to go to the AGM, and they couldn't all fit in the area it was being held......

Jon.
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Yes, I was one of those who was unable to enter the AGM but what really did cheese me off was the attitude of the steward blocking access to the AGM. It was the last AGM and GSS show that I attended.

One thing that does cross my mind is whether the GSS could move around the country and piggy-bank on a local area GSS group annual show. The guys over Southampton way used to have a good annual show (which I think is once every two years now). If things did get going you could even get local groups competing to be the venue for the annual show.
 
KentKeith said:
Yes, I was one of those who was unable to enter the AGM but what really did cheese me off was the attitude of the steward blocking access to the AGM. It was the last AGM and GSS show that I attended.

One thing that does cross my mind is whether the GSS could move around the country and piggy-bank on a local area GSS group annual show. The guys over Southampton way used to have a good annual show (which I think is once every two years now). If things did get going you could even get local groups competing to be the venue for the annual show.
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Keith,

I think you could save the show single handily, all we need is to get the punters to come and see your layout, i am sure we would have a few converted by the end of the day.

Andrew.
 
The idea of having a joint show, after the success of the Reading venture and/or maybe having a show 'wander' around the country so that it would be nearer to some attendees from the various areas, was brought up many times but always with the same answer from those concerned:
Cost of venue, not enough room for AGM and that they wanted a 'base' for the show rather than having to organise it at different venues as this would be more difficult.
Most of the GSS 'board' were then based (maybe still..not sure though) in the midlands so it was easier for them to organise a show at a place like Stafford.

The Midlands Garden Railway show at Leamington Spa is a small one but always well subscribed with both traders and punters. It is a two day show which enables those who work or can't make it on a Saturday , have their fix on the Sunday.
Llanfair is a two day show.

The idea of joining with the Peterborough 16mm show and even making it a two day event sounds like an eminently sensible suggestion but obviously would heavily depend on the 16mm guys also accepting the fact of sharing.

The idea of a 'wandering' show although harder to organise geographically, would be able to reach punters who would not travel to the current venue BUT would also, ironically, probably preclude those that go now, if the journey was too long, (the current venue is a long way for those down south or in Scotland for instance).

Having the show at a venue where there is something else going on very nearby (perhaps a preserved railway gala etc etc) would pull in more punters (both current G scalers and also those who are 'alien' to our hobby).

Joining with another show is probably the best solution but I fear that the GSS 'board' would contemplate that again over their dead bodies, even though it was successful the last time it happened.
 
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Fingers crossed, I hope to trade at the show next year, having missed this year's for reasons I wont go in to, providing I can get a nice spot ant the right price. The show happens to be on my birthday so you never know, there may be cake.
 
beavercreek said:
The idea of having a joint show, after the success of the Reading venture and/or maybe having a show 'wander' around the country so that it would be nearer to some attendees from the various areas, was brought up many times but always with the same answer from those concerned:
Cost of venue, not enough room for AGM and that they wanted a 'base' for the show rather than having to organise it at different venues as this would be more difficult.
Most of the GSS 'board' were then based (maybe still..not sure though) in the midlands so it was easier for them to organise a show at a place like Stafford.

The Midlands Garden Railway show at Leamington Spa is a small one but always well subscribed with both traders and punters. It is a two day show which enables those who work or can't make it on a Saturday , have their fix on the Sunday.
Llanfair is a two day show.

The idea of joining with the Peterborough 16mm show and even making it a two day event sounds like an eminently sensible suggestion but obviously would heavily depend on the 16mm guys also accepting the fact of sharing.

The idea of a 'wandering' show although harder to organise geographically, would be able to reach punters who would not travel to the current venue BUT would also, ironically, probably preclude those that go now, if the journey was too long, (the current venue is a long way for those down south or in Scotland for instance).

Having the show at a venue where there is something else going on very nearby (perhaps a preserved railway gala etc etc) would pull in more punters (both current G scalers and also those who are 'alien' to our hobby).

Joining with another show is probably the best solution but I fear that the GSS 'board' would contemplate that again over their dead bodies, even though it was successful the last time it happened.
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Not true. .
Was there
Still there..
Please volunteer and help
 
mike said:
Not true. .
Was there
Still there..
Please volunteer and help
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Mike, I am not sure what is not true in my posting but if I have been inaccurate about the 'joint' event at Reading, I will of course amend it.
If my information and suppositions are incorrect, can you throw light on why the joint show at Reading (or one like it somewhere else) did not happen again?
 
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beavercreek said:
Mike, I am not sure what is not true in my posting but if I have been inaccurate about the 'joint' event at Reading, I will of course amend it.
If my information and suppositions are incorrect, can you throw light on why the joint show at Reading (or one like it somewhere else) did not happen again?
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The idea is great.
The realaliy is one side ends up doing more , spending more -per member ,
We have aproached other soicietys in the past and continue to do so..but we can not force our selves on others who do not wish it.
We also are unable to match the 16mm in the amounts of money spent on a show.
All soiceetys publish acounts to there members.
Im sure you will be able to see the amounts im talking about..the 16mm show is a eye watering amount...quite simply out of our league.
We need more volenters at all levels ..better volenters .
We need a secretary, a treasurer, we need help with event organisation, .publicaty , group leaders ect ect...there are empty positions and fewer and fewer volenters doing more and more..
 
mike said:
The idea is great.
The realaliy is one side ends up doing more , spending more -per member ,
We have aproached other soicietys in the past and continue to do so..but we can not force our selves on others who do not wish it.
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That is why sharing the load with others (other shows I mean) is a good way of getting something moving.
You did say that the Reading show was unfair in workload balance compared to the others (ALSRM) who were part of the joint event..... perhaps that needs to be cleared up before the work commences?
Perhaps, with the knowledge of what happened at the Reading show, the Society can learn and make sure that a combined show (with whoever) would work better and not be problematic.

Maybe it is worth trying approaching other societies again, as people change and ideas become more acceptable.
Maybe not only trying it with societies but also the larger local groups.
Maybe split it and have two or three (or more) smaller shows around the country, in collaboration with area Garden Railway modelling groups (obviously including G Scale Society groups) who already have successful local shows.


mike said:
We also are unable to match the 16mm in the amounts of money spent on a show.
All soiceetys publish acounts to there members.
Im sure you will be able to see the amounts im talking about..the 16mm show is a eye watering amount...quite simply out of our league.
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Perhaps, if we are going to continue with one large annual show we should save from other areas so that we have more to spend on joining with another body, even if it is not on an equal footing and we have to swallow our pride.
If we are not as big as another even society, then we need to be proportionate in what we pay for our part in the show, and also what space we would require, workload allocation etc etc.
Also perhaps not spending so much on publicity at other shows (with having a roving team attending which obviously costs in board etc etc.) but have a GSS group which is local to the show, display and man it for free....they would be volunteers and cost nothing as they would live locally.

mike said:
We need more volenters at all levels ..better volenters .
We need a secretary, a treasurer, we need help with event organisation, .publicaty , group leaders ect ect...there are empty positions and fewer and fewer volenters doing more and more..
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The fact that the show (and the running of the Society) is all done by volunteers is great on one hand, but the model for an annual 'big' show is a hard one to keep successfully going on a volunteer basis, as it is a similar one to what 'local' groups use to put on smaller shows. and they have the advantage of 'local labour'.
Volunteers are easier to find when a show is fairly local but when it is far away, only the really committed will be there to help.
Gradually as volunteers slip away, a 'big' show (and even a society itself) will find it harder to keep all the pistons running.

Publicity for the Society is paramount not only for info about the rail stuff itself but also to get volunteers into local groups (let alone for the annual show) but we already have a great tool in the website....
The GSS website has muchly improved over the old one but there are a few small 'reorganisational matters'... make the gallery link on the front page...that gives newbies and oldies too, a quick way of seeing what is possible etc without have to hunt or accidentally come across it.
The very comprehensive list of suppliers and traders etc that the old site had is now a lot smaller, this needs to kept up to date and all encompassing.
The Model Railway Club Website link which gives a very comprehensive list of clubs and societies societies (all scales) across the country is under 'Manufacturers and Suppliers' surely not the best place for it.
These are small observations but the devil is in the detail.

I really hope that the show becomes as good as it used to be but it is not enough to blame the lack of volunteers as if it is a case that there are not enough volunteers and few new ones appear, then a new model of show may well be needed.
 
Mike..we have tried that..
proportionate, no..its 50 /50 with other soicetys ..we have asked for it to be other wise but the asnwer is no way....pride is a luxary we can not aford..
Publicaty cost money..the days of free adverts have unfortunately gone.we are not registered as a charity so we dont get free adverts ect. we love members volentering to do shows ..yes .its free. And yes they do.. but not every one is prepard to do it .i would love not to have to go to shows..bliss would be turning up for 2 hours and going home..in reality its the night before setting up..
All day and then striping down packing up and driving home..home and unloading car..its a big ask to ask others to do it..when they do..fantastic ..And some members do..its a great way to demonstrate our society and our hobbie.
Members man more shows than we atend..and are doing more.. but at the end of the day..if no one volenters. The show..the society. Will eventually disapear..sadly
 
If GSS is not big enough to attract a wide range of traders coupled with a limited number of members, then it is perhaps time to consider what options are available. If combining with a larger show like Peterborough then I think that Mike's (Beavercreek) suggestion of having a smaller one(s) linked to a local GSS Group(s) has much merit and needs to be seriously considered.

Martin
 
While the idea of several smaller regional shows has a lot of merit from the publicity angle, I can see the big sticking point being the AGM..... there has to be a point where enough of the membership (at least, those that want to) can get together at the same time and place for the AGM to be held.

Now, personally I never attend the AGM even when I go to G-Rail - I don't have the spare time available to volunteer myself (I wish I did!), so I leave it to those who can and are willing to do so.
In my experience of other clubs and societies in different hobbies (some of which I have been actively involved with in the past), the membership is made up of three types of people - about 5% who actually do everything, 90% who are happy to let them do it, and a final 5% who think that they could do it all better than the first 5%...... ;)
Now, I consider that I'm in the middle 90%, I'm only offering suggestions here for exactly what they are worth, not telling people that this is how it "should" be.

Maybe something could be arranged with one of the bigger shows (P'boro would seem an obvious candidate due to its reasonably central location and the fact that a LOT of people in the hobby go there anyway) to not actually have a "joint show", but to simply sub-let one room for a couple of hours to hold the GSS AGM there (obviously at a different time of day to the 16mm AGM!).....? It would possibly get a few extra GSS members to attend who wouldn't otherwise have gone along, which of course would be a good thing for the show, and would involve only a minimum of organising and cost.

Just a thought, worth exactly what you paid for it.....?

Jon.
 
The cost of atending the show as a trader is £50. Per 6ft linear.
Table hire if needed is £5.00
Per 6ft table
If you need any more info
Eventmanager@gscalesociety.com
If you want any more info from me just ask.
 
At root, G scale garden railway modelling has two problems; first, G scale is a contradiction in terms. As we know, the gauge is 45mm but the scale can be 1-29, 1-24, 1-22.5, 1-20.5... second, it is extremely difficult to exhibit a true garden railway indoors. It seems to me arguably perverse to try and organise an indoor exhibition of what is by definition an outdoor pursuit, using only indoor layouts. Arguably, therefore, it could make sense to exhibit at primarily gardening events. I have operated a very temporary layout at a local garden centre for a week at no cost to me or the centre other than the temporary loan of a space and some of their plant stock, and the use of a bit of their electricity. (I got the odd free cup of coffee as well.) Membership of the GSS didn’t leap overnight but a number of children (and adults) were entertained, parents and other customers vaguely interested and, who knows, might join up in future years.
If modellers wish to remain indoors, fine, but scale then becomes irrelevant, while garden railways can be, and are, built to gauges other than 45mm. It could be argued that the GSS itself is largely irrelevant to either faction.. And some modellers work in more than one scale (electric mice?)
I, with regret, left the GSS because my “local” group was one and a quarter hour’s drive away, through the winter, and almost totally centred on an indoor layout. This year’s G Rail clashed with my local city Model Railway exhibition, but I didn’t attend either - I have bought everything I currently need/can accommodate. I greatly regret the 16mm Society’s decision to relocate as Elsecar has a great deal to commend it beyond railway modelling and made a good day out for disinterested partners . I trust Bradford will succeed, but I shan’t be there. I might go to Harvey Haddon 2019 if I’m spared, and I shall be helping out on 5/6th October with “Battenberg,” the 9’ long G scale/ gauge shunting puzzle layout at the annual Mickleover Model Railway Club exhibition, Derby, again this year. Might see you there?
 
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