Fitting LGB 65000 to a Nicki Frank S

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AddictiveBiscuit

AddictiveBiscuit

Steam Locos, Armoured Vehicles and Aviation
13 Apr 2015
265
North Lincolnshire
Don’t suppose anyone can help me out here.. it just doesn’t want to work, the sounds work fine from the track power but as soon as you plug in the rest of the loco nothing works at all. I’m not sure if I’m doing something wrong but I feel like I’m losing my mind. I understand it’s a older loco but the description of it sounded as if it was simple and just a case of plugging it. To good to be true I guess!

D9ABC9C2-515D-4097-8BE4-91866F053B7D.jpeg

As you can see the sound unit is plugged in and the sounds work, the loco works and so does the tender! But the loco wants to go forward and the tender wants to go backwards! Once I try plug them all back in nothing works.
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

Neither idle nor a marvel
13 Jul 2015
2,219
Ascot
It'll be something to do with the 4 wire connector between the loco and the tender. The pins available on the motor block are white (ws) and brown (bn) for track +/- and yellow (ge) and green (gn) for +/ to the motor. As you can see on this loco the yellow and white are made common, which is okay for DC running. Green, brown and white/yellow are shared with the tender through the 4-wire connector. The fourth wire to the tender is used for lighting control so the 4 way switch in the loco cab can control the lights on the tender.

Which sockets have you attached the 65000 to, it's hard to tell from the picture?

Also please let us know if this is for DC or DCC running?

Thanks, Dave
 
stevedenver

stevedenver

Registered
24 Oct 2009
5,391
I believe that loco is decoder ready. If so, the motor pins are isolated from direct track voltage.
Put it back as it was.. and run the 6500 directly to either wheel contact plungers, pick up shoes, or, the contact strip for these.

You could also use the rear lighting plug contacts, as I believe these are full track voltage.

I actually own this loco, but haven’t tried using the 6500 inside it.
And a, be prepared for rather unsynchronized sound, as i suspect the threshold starting voltage for loco and 6500 are different.
 
AddictiveBiscuit

AddictiveBiscuit

Steam Locos, Armoured Vehicles and Aviation
13 Apr 2015
265
North Lincolnshire
It'll be something to do with the 4 wire connector between the loco and the tender. The pins available on the motor block are white (ws) and brown (bn) for track +/- and yellow (ge) and green (gn) for +/ to the motor. As you can see on this loco the yellow and white are made common, which is okay for DC running. Green, brown and white/yellow are shared with the tender through the 4-wire connector. The fourth wire to the tender is used for lighting control so the 4 way switch in the loco cab can control the lights on the tender.

Which sockets have you attached the 65000 to, it's hard to tell from the picture?

Also please let us know if this is for DC or DCC running?

Thanks, Dave
I’m running on DC Dave, the sound chip is supposed to be compatible with DCC and DC. I included the wrong picture. I have it plugged in track power (brown and white)
 
AddictiveBiscuit

AddictiveBiscuit

Steam Locos, Armoured Vehicles and Aviation
13 Apr 2015
265
North Lincolnshire
I’ve found out I had a wire disconnected in the tender which was causing the loco to go forwards and tender backwards.

Currently I’ve got the loco and tender both moving but the sounds only play the idle sounds at full voltage but no chuffs

A692AADB-C71A-446C-BB71-6569F60BE459.jpeg
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

Neither idle nor a marvel
13 Jul 2015
2,219
Ascot
Thanks. So it seems to be producing the standing sounds but it could be that not enough volts are being applied to trigger the chuffs? I see this in the manual:
Analog operation: As soon as a low
voltage is on the tracks, you hear the
standing sounds. When track voltage
increases, you hear the drive sounds,
which are synchronized to the voltage
in the tracks.
Hint: You can program the drive
sounds to start exactly when the loco
starts. You need a PC and the 55045
MTS PC Decoder Programming
Module or the 55015 Universal
Remote (see INSTRUCTIONS FOR
ADVANCED USERS).
 
AddictiveBiscuit

AddictiveBiscuit

Steam Locos, Armoured Vehicles and Aviation
13 Apr 2015
265
North Lincolnshire
So I’ve wired it up to the plug holes on the back, and when I have the loco at idle (using the cab switch) and up the volts I get life from the sound card.. but once I turn the switch back so the motor has power the sound doesn’t kick in till I have full power

 
AddictiveBiscuit

AddictiveBiscuit

Steam Locos, Armoured Vehicles and Aviation
13 Apr 2015
265
North Lincolnshire
And here is what occurs when the motors are turned on, I can only think it needs reprogramming so the sounds kick in earlier. (Something I’ve never done before) nor do I have the kit..

Sorry I do not have a rolling road yet! So I just had to hold the loco.. not wise I know
 
dutchelm

dutchelm

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,675
N Somerset
If the loco wants to go one way & the tender the other the track pickups are incorrect on either the loco or tender. Once you plug the 2 together you will put a short across the track & nothing will work.
 
AddictiveBiscuit

AddictiveBiscuit

Steam Locos, Armoured Vehicles and Aviation
13 Apr 2015
265
North Lincolnshire
I fixed the issue of the loco going one way the tender another.

I’ve just realised the sound unit is to big unless I remove the lead weight in the tender.. :worried:
 
dutchelm

dutchelm

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,675
N Somerset
I fixed the issue of the loco going one way the tender another.

I’ve just realised the sound unit is to big unless I remove the lead weight in the tender.. :worried:
I will have a look at mine tomorrow. I think I moved the weights to make room for the sound unit & a set of capacitors. I also fitted a massoth magnet & senser onto one axle.
 
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idlemarvel

idlemarvel

Neither idle nor a marvel
13 Jul 2015
2,219
Ascot
And here is what occurs when the motors are turned on, I can only think it needs reprogramming so the sounds kick in earlier. (Something I’ve never done before) nor do I have the kit...
Yes I think you will have to "phone a friend" who has the necessary DCC setup to get them to adjust the start sound voltage CV setting for you. If I live anywhere near Lincolnshire I would help you out but I am in not so sunny Berkshire.
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
26,160
Tamworth, Staffs.
The reason the loco moves before the sounds start:

The Buhler motors are very good, and will start to move the engine at 2-3 volts.
The 'electronics' (be that DC or DCC) needs 5-6 volts to wake-up, hence no sound until the loco is moving at quite a pace..

Massoth did an 'analogue motor control board' which retarded the motor until the volts were enough to drive the rest of the electronics.. Unfortunately, they have ceased this unit.
 
AddictiveBiscuit

AddictiveBiscuit

Steam Locos, Armoured Vehicles and Aviation
13 Apr 2015
265
North Lincolnshire
The reason the loco moves before the sounds start:

The Buhler motors are very good, and will start to move the engine at 2-3 volts.
The 'electronics' (be that DC or DCC) needs 5-6 volts to wake-up, hence no sound until the loco is moving at quite a pace..

Massoth did an 'analogue motor control board' which retarded the motor until the volts were enough to drive the rest of the electronics.. Unfortunately, they have ceased this unit.
I’ve got the addon 65011 standing sounds which I thought would fix that issue of keeping the chuffs going on low voltage, but it really doesn’t. It’s a bit daft really and false information when it says on the manual it’s a simple case of connecting to track power and boom of you go! In reality it’s a bit more then that!
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
17,520
72
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
The LGB ‘Sound Boxes’ as I call them are probably much better with DCC. Not sure if the adjustments to Start Up will work with Analogue but well worth a try. There are quite a few G Scalers located around Lincs so may be worth your while to contact the local group that have some central link via Glendale Junction, Caroline Organises the Local Group which though based near Peterborough do or did have members in Lincs.
 
AddictiveBiscuit

AddictiveBiscuit

Steam Locos, Armoured Vehicles and Aviation
13 Apr 2015
265
North Lincolnshire
I’m wondering if I’ll get better results putting it in a wagon, although I imagine I’ll get the same results.

Going to see if Paul at P&S can sort it..

I would go DCC but it’s extra money and that’s something I havent got lots off! Plus all of my locos are quite old
 
idlemarvel

idlemarvel

Neither idle nor a marvel
13 Jul 2015
2,219
Ascot
I’m wondering if I’ll get better results putting it in a wagon, although I imagine I’ll get the same results...
The results will be the same but you will have more room and you won't have to lose the weight in the tender.
 
SophieB

SophieB

Registered
24 Sep 2017
35
63
Elizabeth City, NC, USA
The reason the loco moves before the sounds start:

The Buhler motors are very good, and will start to move the engine at 2-3 volts.
The 'electronics' (be that DC or DCC) needs 5-6 volts to wake-up, hence no sound until the loco is moving at quite a pace..

Massoth did an 'analogue motor control board' which retarded the motor until the volts were enough to drive the rest of the electronics.. Unfortunately, they have ceased this unit.
The Massoth DC motor control board (part #8410101) looks to be still available, at least here in the States. It drops the voltage going to the motor by about 4V so that it doesn't start moving until about 6.5V on the tracks. Something else that needs to be fitted into a small space, but it may solve your problem.
 
AddictiveBiscuit

AddictiveBiscuit

Steam Locos, Armoured Vehicles and Aviation
13 Apr 2015
265
North Lincolnshire
The Massoth DC motor control board (part #8410101) looks to be still available, at least here in the States. It drops the voltage going to the motor by about 4V so that it doesn't start moving until about 6.5V on the tracks. Something else that needs to be fitted into a small space, but it may solve your problem.
What do you wire it up to exactly? I’ve found them on online so I might order one Massoth 8410101 - MOTORREG. DCC 8410101
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
26,160
Tamworth, Staffs.
What do you wire it up to exactly? I’ve found them on online so I might order one Massoth 8410101 - MOTORREG. DCC 8410101
It plugs onto the four pins on the motor-block.. It will come with the instructions.
You do need to screw it to the weight, in the loco / tender. - To get rid of heat.

BOTH motors would need to be fed from the unit (I am assuming both tender and loco have motors, not so for all versions). - You may have to be 'creative' with the wiring between loco and tender? - As I say, depends on the version you have.