ESU CabControl - Changing Address on LGB/MFX?

A

AMuller396

Registered
Country flag
*Mods please move if this doesn't belong here*

I have been using the ESU CabControl now for over 2 years and with no issue (using LGB 28614). Now that I have a second locomotive LGB 26600 I've noticed that I cant seem to change the address of either locomotives. 28614 is still using address number 0003 which is the factory number.

I have tried the video that ESU has posted HERE to no avail. I have set up a programing track and the system keeps telling me "programming failed."

I have tried disabling "railcom" and trying it again but that doesn't seem to work neither.

There is a read/write CV section on the CabControl, but I have no knowledge how to change address from there and or display the address using CV values. Can MFX decoders be changed using CV values (I have read something on here that a lot of people don't like MFX)?

I have read elsewhere that for example Soundtraxx equipped trains need a booster connected to CabControl, is it the same for MFX equipped trains?

Anyone have CabControl and has successfully have multiple MFX trains on it and able to run them? Any help will be appreciated.

Hopefully this is an easy fix, if not I am forced to move on to a different system.

Andrew
 
So, are you running them in MFX mode or DCC mode or DC mode? I think that is where to start.

Have not found specific reference that your system supports MFX mode, but seems to. Perhaps MFX programming must be done differently, and I also do not know if your command station is in MFX mode for all locos, or you can have some in MFX and some in DCC.

I'd take a wild guess, and set the system in DCC mode, the decoder forced to DCC mode, disable MFX mode in the decoder first, and then change addresses as you do for your DCC locos.

Greg
 
Greg Elmassian said:
So, are you running them in MFX mode or DCC mode or DC mode? I think that is where to start.

Have not found specific reference that your system supports MFX mode, but seems to. Perhaps MFX programming must be done differently, and I also do not know if your command station is in MFX mode for all locos, or you can have some in MFX and some in DCC.

I'd take a wild guess, and set the system in DCC mode, the decoder forced to DCC mode, disable MFX mode in the decoder first, and then change addresses as you do for your DCC locos.

Greg
Click to expand...

Per the LGB manual, the trains run on the following priority "Priority 1: MFX; Priority 2: DCC; Priority 3: DC"

Now when I put the train on the track to add to CabControl, I have to program them manually because it doesn't recognize them as "Railcom", I assume that CabControl runs it under DCC (Loco switches automatically to "priority 2"). All functions work, and the address you set is 3. If I change the address it wont work.

Address change doesn't work at 2 locations on CabControl. The first place is at the adding of locomotive and second place is under the change address of the CabControl.
 
Greg Elmassian said:
I would ask on an ESU forum. I'm not familiar with the interface, so won't ask you if you are running short or long addresses.

Also, many people lock out the MFX option... good advice.

Greg
Click to expand...

Can you tell me how to do that using CV?

Also if I was to try changing the address via CV would you be able to tell me how to do it?

Thanks
 
My first question would be :
Do you understand the difference between short and long addresses?

This is a 'quirk' of the DCC system, and affects a number of individual CV's, depending on how 'big' the decimal number is, that you would like to use for the loco's address.

You need to understand (a little) of how the DCC system is designed to interpret the number you wish to use, as the 'address' of your loco.

Like Greg, I am not overly familiar with the ESU way of doing things.
There may be a conflict, between the way ESU controlsystems expect to 'talk' to a decoder, and what the decoder will do. This may not match, what a Marklin decoder will do.
This was an early problem, between Massoth control systems, and Marklin MFX decoders.
The Massoth system was the 'de-facto' LGB system, and told decoders to do certain things and expected certain results. The new decoders did not respond, as the control system expected.

PhilP.
 
Best practice while programming is to keep only the 1 loco on the track.

The LGB 26600 Rhb kroko has a built in powerbuffer which initially disturbs DCC programming , setting of the CV's. You will have to wait until the buffer runs empty.

Run the loco and switch on lights and operating sounds (F6). Transfer the loco to the programming track and wait till the sound dies and lights go out. Try reading the CV1, if fail wait another minute. If still dosnt succeeded repeat and wait an extra 5 minutes after sound and lights have died.

Dont bother about Mfx or Dcc or long or short adresses!!!

Allways change the adress from every loco to a value other then 3. Next time a new factory fresh loco is put on the track you can drive it instandly with adress.......3
 
Last edited:
Uhh... some helpful clarification:

"Best practice while programming is to keep only the 1 loco on the track."

this is sort of a very dangerous statement to make to a beginner, or ever somewhat experienced user.

There are TWO types of programming, so just saying "programming" is ambiguous...

POM - Programming On the Main uses the power to the track in normal DCC mode, and many locos can be on the track, since you must program a loco by providing it's address. Then only the loco with that address will respond. Unless you have ANOTHER loco with the SAME address on the tracks there is no danger.

The other type of programming is "service mode", and this is normally a different output (but sometimes the same) and there is NOT the normal DCC signal, but a special voltage and programming sequence that allows you to read and write CVs WITHOUT the loco address. In this case it is MANDATORY that there is only one loco/decoder on the track.

So technically the statement ""Best practice while programming is to keep only the 1 loco on the track."" is very poor for a number of reasons, if you are talking POM it really does not matter, and if you are talking service mode/programming track 1 loco is MANDATORY, not "best practice"


I see that you later indicate moving from POM to Service Mode.... I get what you are trying to convey, but newcomers need to know and appreciate the two different programming modes and environments. Your procedure should:
  • force the loco to DCC mode
  • drain the keepalive / buffer capacitor
  • enter service mode programming and allow for address change.
I would again suggest that you disable MFX mode.

Greg
 
CabControl does not support MFX (M4), only the full Ecos CS does, so you can only program in DCC mode with CabControl. I suggested you turn MFX protocol off on the loco with CV50=2.

Are you trying to program a short address (CV1) or long address (higher than 128 CV17/18)? You will need to make sure you have the correct CV29 setting to support either long or short address and the number of speed steps. Google CV29 if you arent familair with these values, there are some tables that show all the values and what they mean.
 
Hi Andrew,

First, please read the manuals that came with your loco! These tell you where and what to change to set the loco CVs for DCC only!

Second, If your ESU Cab Control now recognizes mfx protocol there is a very good chance the locos self-registered to their mfx unique address when you first operated them on your layout. The DCC address is now meaningless to your system while running with both DCC and mfx protocols active.

You will need to operate the locos individually on a DCC protocol only system using address 3. This will set the decoder to expect DCC programming. Then, using a DCC protocol only system, change the necessary CVs using one of the DCC programming methods. I recommend using a programming track.

I'm sure can do all of this with your Cab Control system but need to understand how to turn off mfx protocol on the ESU Cab Control unit. You will need to delete the locos from the Cab Control inventory before operating them with DCC only. Please read the ESU Cab Control manual and any mfx support system update info!

I second Greg's recommendation to check on the ESU support forums or check with ESU's USA support team.
 
Greg, Well, its still best practice as there are systems which don't have a separate programming track output!, like Mobile Station 2, and it happen t to me, all 3 locos where set to address 7. There are also switch boxes available.

If you read the topic starters initial post he mentions he has a problem with double address settings, so this only occurs on DCC systems as mfx registers locomotives automatic and are recognizable by their name rather then a number. So its obvious a DCC system.

All in all a fairly simple problem, both DCC locos on the same number. What does topic starter get? Irrelevant info about MFX in general, MFX needs to be off, ESU forum etc...

The power buffer causes the problem with CV setting on DCC-systems. Not mfx... or whatever.
 
Last edited:
Yes, my point is if you qualify / describe the situation more it will be useful, but if you want to do POM, and you ALREADY have more than one loco with the SAME address on the track, you have a problem before you begin.

But in this case, I heartily agree, since it quite often happens that a person forgets to put in the right address during POM and screws up some other loco.

For this particular situation, really best practice is NEVER POM, you want to read back CVs to be sure you changed them.... doing POM for addresses is definitely a very POOR practice for anyone.

But your next point I will also take issue with:
MFX is not irrelevant here, since he fails on the programming track.

How could it fail the programming track? Many things. You point out a very good, and fundamental idea, drain the keepalive capacitor, but if that is not the problem, then I encourage you to re-read the many topics and posts here on MFX related programming issues.

(plus apparently the rest of his rolling stock is not MFX, all the better to lock out that protocol from the decoder)

Again, we are speculating on his particular ESU system in regards to support of MFX.... I agree with Phil S, get onto an ESU forum and understand the capabilities of the system before modifying it.

Greg
 
Greg Elmassian said:
(plus apparently the rest of his rolling stock is not MFX, all the better to lock out that protocol from the decoder)

Again, we are speculating on his particular ESU system in regards to support of MFX.... I agree with Phil S, get onto an ESU forum and understand the capabilities of the system before modifying it.

Greg
Click to expand...
Well topic starter writes in post #1 he has only two locos, 26814 (28614 is wrong doesnt exist) the HSB 5 Kuppler of 2016 and the High End RhB kroko 26600 of 2021 release and as confirmed on the locos particular webpages BOTH have the mfx/dcc dekoder inside as al models have since 2014.

ESU's cab control is finnally 2022 released here in Europe (up till now exclusivelly for USA despite ESU being a german company!?) and in recent press releases and the manual and flyer downloadable from their website, EU and/or US, MFX is not supported.

So both locos have been put on a DCC system so the dekoders have allready switched to DCC mode.

To sum things up, With little effort it is possible to give the questioner a more accurate answer instead of providing all kinds of irrelevant information (and sometimes incorrect statements).
 
Last edited:
I'm still of the opinion this is an ESU question no one seems to be able to answer.

So, finally, you do provide something that would have helped right away, the ESU system does not support MFX. Thus you can state that the system has been running in DCC mode....

That's information (which I personally cannot confirm or deny) that would have been very helpful on the thread a bit earlier.

So anyway, let's see if the op follows your recipe as outlined and gets the results.

People were trying to be helpful, not irrelevant... withholding the "ESU system does not support MFX" until now allowed more speculation... you could have mentioned this is post #3 and saved a lot of speculation, not post #15....

Anyway, let's see the results.

Greg
 
Greg Elmassian said:
So, finally, you do provide something that would have helped right away, the ESU system does not support MFX. Thus you can state that the system has been running in DCC mode....

That's information (which I personally cannot confirm or deny) that would have been very helpful on the thread a bit earlier.

So anyway, let's see if the op follows your recipe as outlined and gets the results.

People were trying to be helpful, not irrelevant... withholding the "ESU system does not support MFX" until now allowed more speculation... you could have mentioned this is post #3 and saved a lot of speculation, not post #15....

Anyway, let's see the results.

Greg
Click to expand...
If the ESU system would support mfx.....then this problem would NOT be happening....as mfx dekoders DONT USE AN ADRESS to be selected AND report to the central station automaticly as soon as puth on the track, hence all info is in post #1!! (2 locos etc)

Ok, thats it.....
 
Last edited:
AMuller396 said:
Per the LGB manual, the trains run on the following priority "Priority 1: MFX; Priority 2: DCC; Priority 3: DC"

Now when I put the train on the track to add to CabControl, I have to program them manually because it doesn't recognize them as "Railcom", I assume that CabControl runs it under DCC (Loco switches automatically to "priority 2"). All functions work, and the address you set is 3. If I change the address it wont work.

Address change doesn't work at 2 locations on CabControl. The first place is at the adding of locomotive and second place is under the change address of the CabControl.
Click to expand...
Hello Mr. Muller - You talked with me on the phone about a week ago and I sent you an email suggesting steps to determine the root cause of your CV1 Address change on your LGB locomotive. As an ESU Dealer, and as has already been finally concluded, the ESU CabControl is strictly DCC with Railcom+ feature. Only the ESU ECOS system has the four technologies to include mfx and DCC plus the Railcom+ feature.

So, here are some additional questions to help pin-point what's your problem programming the CV1 address: 1. Operator error; the CabControl system; or the MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog decoder in your LGB locomotive. First, since you apparently have two LGB locomotives with the MSD3 decoders installed, have you been able to Read & Write CVs with the other LGB locomotive with the CabControl? If so, then the problem is probably the MSD3 decoder in the second locomotive. If you can't Read & Write CVs in both locomotives, then the problem is likely your CabControl system, or Operator Error........it's highly unlikely both MSD3 decoders are defective. Please respond to these questions and then we can go from there in further analysis. You can email me directly if you prefer: olddominionrailways@gmail.com

Thanks
Thomas White
Old Dominion Railways - LGB Trains
McLean VA USA
 
Greg Elmassian said:
This is a very interesting subject, since the community is just learning about the interactions of MFX and DCC, so I hope you keep the progress on solving the problem at least reported here.

Thanks, greg
Click to expand...
Greg - If I'm part of the solution, I will certainly keep this community posted. As an LGB Dealer and Authorized Service Center, and Diesel2000 who's a multi-user of LGB locomotives with the Marklin MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog decoders installed, we both are continuing to learn about the technicalities of these Marklin-proprietary sound decoders. An interesting data point is that currently Marklin "locks" these factory-installed MSD3 decoders, so hobbyists can't make changes or re-install sound files. To do so, the hobbyist must purchase the LGB 55029 Retrofit MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog decoder and then can download any sound file from the Marklin sound library, and then make any sound adjustments, if desired. Why: Don't know but we've heard that Marklin might be working to change that condition. The other data point is that while the vast majority of CVs can be accessed using a DCC command station, there are some CVs that can only be accessed using an mfx-equipped command station such as the Marklin CS3/CS3+ or Mobile Station2, or the ESU ECOS. It appears that the majority of mfx hobbyists in the US and Europe are smaller scale users, HO, N, and much less in large scale such as Marklin-produced LGB users. And take that one step further, in the US about 80% of large scale hobbyists are DC analog users, 15% DCC and 5% battery. So, I have no estimate of the small number of large scale mfx users in the US.

Diesel2000 might have some other thoughts and experiences to share from his operating and experimenting with the MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog sound decoders installed in his Marklin produced LGB locomotives he's bought from me.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom