Guys if I go digital what controller is recomended? Also can I run a dc loco with a dcc controller or will it fry? Is digital more costly? Is it easy to come by? Only thinking as I'm only going to run a single line that's 40ft long but would like 2-3 locos running.
Dc or Dcc that is the question
- Thread starter John Rees
- Start date
Best advice I can give is to hook up with a DCC user and see what is involved. personally, I would stay with one manufacturer for kit - although most systems are intended to be compatible.
Some DC locos are OK under DCC control (LGB for example) but other motoors can overheat (Piko recommend a decoder is fitted before using on DCC track).
Have a look at the Massoth website.
DCC wont be cheap but if your going to do it, its a good idea to start out that way because fitting chips to a collection all at once is a bit expensive.
You will need
A base station
A power supply
A controller
and each loco will need a decoder.
Add to that if you want-
sound decoders
points and signal control
radio remoter controller
etc, etc.
Have a look at Marks website - he is a regular on here - http://www.gardenrailoutlet.co.uk
Some DC locos are OK under DCC control (LGB for example) but other motoors can overheat (Piko recommend a decoder is fitted before using on DCC track).
Have a look at the Massoth website.
DCC wont be cheap but if your going to do it, its a good idea to start out that way because fitting chips to a collection all at once is a bit expensive.
You will need
A base station
A power supply
A controller
and each loco will need a decoder.
Add to that if you want-
sound decoders
points and signal control
radio remoter controller
etc, etc.
Have a look at Marks website - he is a regular on here - http://www.gardenrailoutlet.co.uk
I'd suggest joining the G Scale Society.
The next meeting of the Essex Area Group is at Salcott Village Hall on the 15th November.
You will get lots of different opinion about control systems.
Personally I'm DCC. I'm experimenting with wireless DCC so I don't have to clean the track.
I'm reasonably close so if I can help in any way let me know.
The next meeting of the Essex Area Group is at Salcott Village Hall on the 15th November.
You will get lots of different opinion about control systems.
Personally I'm DCC. I'm experimenting with wireless DCC so I don't have to clean the track.
I'm reasonably close so if I can help in any way let me know.
Generally avoid running DC locos on DCC although it's possible it can heat them up a bit too much. The vast majority of dcc locos will run on DC though with no problem.
Dcc is dearer as you are adding a chip from, £30 for a 1amp small motor only decoder up to £160 for a 3amp one with sound for big locos, plus the control system which are generally more but you can get ones powerful enough for small locos under £200. If you can make a local meet then that a great way to get hands on and get a variety of opinion.
If your layout is going to stay a simple loop with one or two sidings then you don't need dcc unless you want to run two or more completely independently. You can switch one out the way with a passing loop to let a faster one get by but you do lose the ability to drive them at varied speed compared to each other.
Dcc is dearer as you are adding a chip from, £30 for a 1amp small motor only decoder up to £160 for a 3amp one with sound for big locos, plus the control system which are generally more but you can get ones powerful enough for small locos under £200. If you can make a local meet then that a great way to get hands on and get a variety of opinion.
If your layout is going to stay a simple loop with one or two sidings then you don't need dcc unless you want to run two or more completely independently. You can switch one out the way with a passing loop to let a faster one get by but you do lose the ability to drive them at varied speed compared to each other.
Personally John, if you are only running one line I would not bother with the extra cost of DCC...
If you are running with directional lighting and sound then fair enough. But going off my experience with '00' and N-Gage I wouldn't bother with DCC as it would not be of benefit....
That's only my opinion btw...
Andy.
If you are running with directional lighting and sound then fair enough. But going off my experience with '00' and N-Gage I wouldn't bother with DCC as it would not be of benefit....
That's only my opinion btw...
Andy.
My line's only a single track, a passing loop and a couple of sidings. runs perfectly well with DC and it's wired with sections, although I run DCC most of the time and the majority of locos are chipped, a few having sound.
For me, I chose to go DCC because I wanted to get to grips with the technology, to be able to drive any loco anywhere at any time and to try out sound. Points are also under DCC control. My N scale system has way too many locos to convert to DCC now, but chipping my small fleet of large scale locos has been a manageable exercise.
I run an NCE 10 amp DCC system, with decoders of several different brands in the locos. The NCE is powerful yet easy to use, sadly their wireless system isn't legal in the UK and that's one thing in favour of other systems such as Massoth when it comes to an outdoor line.
I'm definitely one the side of NOT running unchipped locos on DCC, it's not good for them and why risk it for price of a decoder? Some Piko locos have been known to blow capacitors if this is attempted. As it happens, NCE systems don't support the zero-stretching fudge that others have to allow an unchipped loco to run.
For me, I chose to go DCC because I wanted to get to grips with the technology, to be able to drive any loco anywhere at any time and to try out sound. Points are also under DCC control. My N scale system has way too many locos to convert to DCC now, but chipping my small fleet of large scale locos has been a manageable exercise.
I run an NCE 10 amp DCC system, with decoders of several different brands in the locos. The NCE is powerful yet easy to use, sadly their wireless system isn't legal in the UK and that's one thing in favour of other systems such as Massoth when it comes to an outdoor line.
I'm definitely one the side of NOT running unchipped locos on DCC, it's not good for them and why risk it for price of a decoder? Some Piko locos have been known to blow capacitors if this is attempted. As it happens, NCE systems don't support the zero-stretching fudge that others have to allow an unchipped loco to run.
There is also the option of radio control. You need a transmitter and reciever and ESC for each loco or use a 6 channel set with a loco on each channel.... Can be very very cost effective and gives individual control.... Quite a few of us have gone down this road.
I have both, my electric trams draw power from the over head and my steam tram is battery powered. It can be a seriously cheap option assuming you wish to have one controler for each loco then you need a system like this; http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8337__Hobby_King_2_4Ghz_4Ch_Tx_Rx_V2_Mode_1_.html
and a speed control; http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__46627__HobbyKing_X_Car_45A_Brushed_Car_ESC_UK_Warehouse_.html
or; http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/320A-Brushed-Speed-Controller-ESC-f-1-8-1-10-RC-Electric-Car-Truck-Buggy-Boat-BY-/200988738224?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles&hash=item2ecbdcc2b0
And as required switches for lights smoke etc; http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Turnigy-RC-Receiver-Controlled-Switch-on-off-10A-30V-UK-STOCK-Fast-Dispatch-/201169853368?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item2ed6a85bb8
For use in a train expensive kit is not necessary, this stuff is so cheap you would not bother repairing it... The worst that can happen is that your loco could stall in a tunnel but most of the ESC's have a cruise control function if the signal is lost they just stay where they are till they get a signal back again...
and a speed control; http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__46627__HobbyKing_X_Car_45A_Brushed_Car_ESC_UK_Warehouse_.html
or; http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/320A-Brushed-Speed-Controller-ESC-f-1-8-1-10-RC-Electric-Car-Truck-Buggy-Boat-BY-/200988738224?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Radio_Controlled_Vehicles&hash=item2ecbdcc2b0
And as required switches for lights smoke etc; http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Turnigy-RC-Receiver-Controlled-Switch-on-off-10A-30V-UK-STOCK-Fast-Dispatch-/201169853368?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item2ed6a85bb8
For use in a train expensive kit is not necessary, this stuff is so cheap you would not bother repairing it... The worst that can happen is that your loco could stall in a tunnel but most of the ESC's have a cruise control function if the signal is lost they just stay where they are till they get a signal back again...
Because of track cleaning and other connectivity issues most people will run with batteries. As long as your locos are not tiny (jigger) this should be an option. It saves all wiring, except for lights, switches, etc. You do have to either install it yourself or pay somebody to do it. This is not plug and play, like DCC sometimes is.
John,
I would certainly recommend DCC. Even with just 3 Locomotives the benefits are immense. As for costs, you can pick up LGB kit second hand for very good prices even from Shops. I have bought odd items 2nd hand from bot GRS and Glendale Jcn with all being in good workable condition.
Would suggest though that you get a Compatible Set Up. For instance with LGB it may be better to ensure that you are all Parallel ('P' on all the devices) rather than mix Parallel and Serial. This does work but can cause compatibility issues. Wireless is also well worth considering and the LGB set is pretty good providing you are not trying to go round the side of a building 70 or so feet away. With your current set up I think you would have no problems.
Good luck, whatever you decide on. Just let us know how you get on.
JonD
I would certainly recommend DCC. Even with just 3 Locomotives the benefits are immense. As for costs, you can pick up LGB kit second hand for very good prices even from Shops. I have bought odd items 2nd hand from bot GRS and Glendale Jcn with all being in good workable condition.
Would suggest though that you get a Compatible Set Up. For instance with LGB it may be better to ensure that you are all Parallel ('P' on all the devices) rather than mix Parallel and Serial. This does work but can cause compatibility issues. Wireless is also well worth considering and the LGB set is pretty good providing you are not trying to go round the side of a building 70 or so feet away. With your current set up I think you would have no problems.
Good luck, whatever you decide on. Just let us know how you get on.
JonD
Tried all four systems here over the years. That's DC, DCC, RC and live steam. Currently run live rail DC for "her" locos which are mainly LGB. Run RC both indoor and outside. Found DCC expensive, irritating and still has the major disadvantages of track cleaning. DC can be a real pain when cabling up the isolating and secondary feed extensions/modifications etc. RC is convenient, cheap, easy to install and set up and with the new battery packs and small profile kit is improving in leaps and bounds. Live steam, is expensive, still requires RC unless you enjoy chasing locos, needs more in the way of general servicing and can be very messy. Live steam and live rail running do not generally go well together as clean track and oily locos with any sort of incline involved can be very interesting indeed. So based on our experience RC, steam and DC here, where for some strange reason I usually end up cleaning the track for her to run her live rail stock. One remaining disadvantage to our current system is that we have to run all insulated axle stock to avoid shorts when using live rail.
And as I have discovered to my embarrasement the residue from the "artificial" smoke from the steam tram on the overhead means it has to be cleaned with a metho rag....Enginehouse said:
KGR are not DCC experts and are not the best to get advice from although Andy is helpful, he also only stocks a few decoders so anything else would have to be ordered in.John Rees said:
Aristocraft/Crest Revolution r/c system anyone? Or might it be considered neither fish nor fowl for the purposes of this thread. Max. Google Crest Revolution Train Engineer
I use Crest Revolution RC and battery power, this is great when you want to take your engine to visit another layout. Revolution has a cost to it, which is far out weighed by the flexibility and ease of use you have, and the different sorts of control you can have on your layout. eg points, light, etc from the one hand piece