Converting Accucraft K-27 to battery r/c

John S

John S

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Yes, that can happen if the battery supply is over 12 volts.
The # SSI-12v5 after market Opto coupler device I used to make for Sierra sound pcb's was designed by Sierra and permitted up to 12 volts to be fed into the Sierra pcb to replace the 6 volt battery. PDF instructions The 12 volts was provided by a proper 12 v regulator.
+ 12v on terminal # 4 and - on terminal # 2.
If you used only 6 volts you could not get a Sierra diesel sound to ramp up to notch 8.
Tony, now that is a neat solution for a work around, may even cross over from the Dark Side of DCC to have a dangle at this battery power lark!;)
 
beavercreek

beavercreek

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John, Max, Tony...
John, it looks like it is the same and it seems to hook up the same but...... is this PWM/linear adapter board the same as the ones that you created, for me to go between the Revolution RX/ESC or a DCC decoder (plus RF system) under battery operation (18V)?

AND just in case I want to have the option of track power as well as battery...
Will the converter also operate if switched over to track power (DC or DCC)?... (I should imagine that DC track power will be the same as battery but need to be above the usual 8v or so for the Soundtraxx card to kick in as there would be no back-up battery.... this will mean the usual 'popping' sound until voltage reaches 8V or so.

Here is the photo showing the original Aristocraft/Crest PWM/Linear unit that they made for the Revolution system to work with Soundtraxx sound cards...
Below that, is John's fine incarnation of the same device

110219_62d12511de83ef7961eb24997dad9a35.png
 
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John S

John S

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Mike, the one shown in the picture is a DIY version of the original Crest Board, Pink Resistor and 817 Opto's.

The other one with the Blue Resistor and the 2501 Opto's is a DIY version for the Sierra P.N. 810111 Radio Control Adapter Board

110221_4193c0444e7b51809074fdfd4e03e661.png


This one is for use with a DCC Decoder. The small board in the above picture also goes with this.
110223_e311dda87ae1b88a68ff0f8bb78b7d0d.png
 
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beavercreek

beavercreek

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Ahhh John .....three types.....
Am I correct in thinking that the new Revolution RF DCC system (hooks up to DCC decoder for use with battery power) will use the third type?

Is the labelling (below) of your photo correct? ..... and what about the possible use (using a DPDT switch) with track power (DC or DCC) ...what ramifications to hook up would that mean?

110233_07f1ee86db933ae77fbe481160855c35.jpg
 
John S

John S

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Almost.:)

110237_a76faa10c0408347b34cfd7183bcbb71.png


Am I correct in thinking that the new Revolution RF DCC system (hooks up to DCC decoder for use with battery power) will use the third type?

Correct, if involves connecting to a decoder, these are required.

Revolution RF Receiver connects to the Decoder, decoder out to the adapter board, which then connects to the Sierra Card.
110239_8dcd0fdcba8d3c6b0c83e42f1ee977f6.png


This is the converter for PWM to Linear, for instance on Track Power with a PWM Controller, converts the Output to Linear to enable a Loco fitted with a Sierra Sound Card to operate correctly.

Smaller version, could well be fitted to individual loco's to be used on other owners of Garden Railways that use PWM controllers.

110241_8fc98c05ae276a00f6c5220624e27411.png


Last part of your query,
"and what about the possible use (using a DPDT switch) with track power (DC or DCC) ...what ramifications to hook up would that mean?"

Substitute Battery Input, for DC Track Input, PWM or Linear.... will have to give this some further thought, depends on which adapter board is fitted...................

DCC, Central Station using the Analogue facility, gut feeling this will be a non starter, mainly due to the way DCC Central Stations "stretch" the Analogue Output as DC, it has a peculiar waveform when you look at with measuring equipment, guess it would confuse the hell out of anything connected to it.

Which leads me to interesting thought, wonder what would occur if the "stretched" DCC signal was fed into a Linear Converter.........guess I'll have to find out !;)
 
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beavercreek

beavercreek

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So if using a DCC decoder (track or Revolution DCC battery powered) with the Sierra board, you will need the three extra boards:
A. 1 x simple PWM to Linear converter (top left in photo)
B. 1 x the larger square board (middle of photo)
C. 1 x very small function interface board (in the photo in post 64)

I am being really thick I know, but still not quite sure what board 'B' does, compared to the DIY board (pink resistor) which I think has this circuitry on board already???)

Are either the DIY board or the PN810111 boards a combination of board 'A' and board 'B'?

Can the DIY crest board be used on its own with the sierra sound card but then a 6v back-up battery (and associated charging system) would still be needed?


in your photo..what is the fourth board just below the multimeter... is it an adjustable DC regulator?

110243_e311dda87ae1b88a68ff0f8bb78b7d0d.png
 
John S

John S

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Mike, I'm off to do the day job, I'll post a picture, probably in the morning as "block" diagram on what connects to where.
 
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beavercreek

beavercreek

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Hi John
Many thanks for that.
I can see that in the top diagram you show the regulator as half of the DIY board as the other half of the board is redundant with DCC as the DCC decoder supplies the 'speed' info to pins 8&7 on the Sierra board.

As far as the info on use of each board type with the Sierra soundboard:
The Aristocraft original 57090 (and your DIY version ) are for use with the Aristocraft (Crest) Train engineer Revolution DC (analogue) RX boards.
But...
...you also say that the Sierra PN 81011 can be used with Aristocraft Train Engineer.... does this mean that both types of boards are okay to use with the DC (analogue) Crest Revolution RX?

110289_107c51d3e34a8885881eced095765f2b.jpg
 
John S

John S

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Exeter, Devon, UK
As far as the info on use of each board type with the Sierra soundboard:
The Aristocraft original 57090 (and your DIY version ) are for use with the Aristocraft (Crest) Train engineer Revolution DC (analogue) RX boards.
But...
...you also say that the Sierra PN 81011 can be used with Aristocraft Train Engineer.... does this mean that both types of boards are okay to use with the DC (analogue) Crest Revolution RX?

View attachment 245588

Mike, as you are aware most of the info that has been collected was interspersed with contradictory and an often irrelevant load of old tosh!

I'd say yes, fundamentally each version of the various boards all perform the same identical function, in that the PWM in voltage/signal, is reduced to safe voltage level and is Linear for the Sierra Card to operate correctly.

The components differ slightly across all the variants, to do with how the PWM input voltage/signal is "fed" in, and based on the that, the output is adjusted accordingly to deal with this, and for the Sierra Card to operate correctly.

When you are installation mode, try a few combinations to see which one works best, it will either operate correctly or the infamous "popping" sound will occur!

The Sierra PN 81011 is the most expensive to replicate, about 10x more than the 57090 DIY version.
 
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beavercreek

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John could I order some more of the Sierra DCC adapter boards to go with the PWM/linear boards that you have already sent?
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
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Well for what it is worth here, finally, is the install of all the bits - Sierra soundcard, Fosworks Cobra/RX-3/Pico switches and John's nifty card that sorts out the PWM issue with the Sierra. Hiding under that lot is the battery pack and its fuse, speaker and rear light voltage regulator (that is tapped into the 18v supply via the 18v input terminals to John's board). All the wiring has been carefully checked that is conforms to the schematic in post #55 with nothing loose or exposed that could cause a short. Famous last words.

Just got to bind the RX-3 to its Tx-2.1 Omni transmitter - I'll take the Sierra offline first ;). Then it is test that there is a variable voltage output for the motor (already made sure that the battery and power switch are alive and kicking) and the drivers are turning. Then it is the full switch on to make sure the Sierra is responding as it should :sweating:

I have removed the pick ups from the tender wheels (they are on one side only) but for the life of me I cannot fathom how the drivers on the opposite side on the loco are completing the circuit. Tender drawbar is insulated from the loco so the 2 wires coming out of the tender are now just feeding a variable voltage to the locos bus bar that feeds the motor and front lights (with their voltage regulator). I suppose as there is now nothing to complete the circuit then we shoul be good to go with the loco as it's wired for battery operation. Anbody seen any glaring foul ups I have overlooked ? Max

P..S. Provided eveything works as it should I may not need to make the trip round the M25 and up the M11 Mike.........unless.

118451_9f46637ccdcc5a1c5cae03370033b401.jpg



The spare bits

118453_a6ab9e163f16f226ae1a6656f827304b.jpg
 
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John S

John S

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Max, commendable and a very neat installation and layout of all the various bits.

Downloaded the picture, enlarged it, and traced around the various wires and connections, does appear that all is connected correctly.

18V Feed (Red/Black) into top connector, 6V out to the spliced joint into the Sierra 6V input.

Cobra input (Blue/Yellow) to the bottom connector, via the two opto couplers, out via (Green/Orange) to the Sierra inputs connector.

Motor wires, switch wires, lighting, all do indeed appear to be connected correctly.

Can't actually see any apparent "foul ups", fingers crossed, good to go.................

Loco wheel connection? only thing I can think off, is, was this not connected to and part of the original feed for the voltage regulator as part of the front/cab light circuit?
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
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Loco wheel connection? only thing I can think off, is, was this not connected to and part of the original feed for the voltage regulator as part of the front/cab light circuit?
Thank you for the compliments John, it's a lot tidier than my first effort with my GRS L&B Exe using a mixture of Fosworks and Brian Jones supplied parts :D

I'll take a look down the boiler barrel to see where the wiring to the cab light goes. The last time I looked there were 2 wires running back from the voltage regulator that I assume are the ones that are attached to the loco's terminal bus in post #1.

All the wiring for the front and rear lamps appear not to be grounded through the chassis as far as I can see. When the front circuit board with voltage regulator failed the loco and the rear lights still worked fine so it does not seem to play a part in completing the electrical circuit for the loco. At least all the wheels must be insulated .

The wiring for the motor and the front voltage regulator/lights terminate on the block pictured in post #1, with the lights and motor sharing connected/siamesed terminals each for + & - . The 2 centre terminal posts are for the motor and the 2 outer for the lights. I wonder if on one side only there is something gounding those terminals to the Loco's chassis ?

I assume I will just input the variable voltage via the installed wiring from the isolated tender to the loco's motor/lights terminal block. I'll clip on an input from my TE power supply just to check that this will work. Pity Accucraft at that time did not require the factory building these loco's to provide a wiring diagram, a la Bachmann :banghead: Max
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
4,436
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Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
Update to post #75 above - The 2 pairs of wires going back towards the rear of the loco- 1 pair rise up to the cab area, so I presume these are for the cab light. T'other pair head back around the motor, so I presume these are the ones attached to the "power bus" terminal under the firebox (see picture post #1) with the motor leads and provide the current to the voltage regulator board up front.

Also found 1 of the mar.....sorry, "classification" light bulbs was non functioning (and messed another up trying to re-solder a connection and insulation shrink at its base) so need to to get some spares. Just going to run with the headlight for the moment. This little exercise is teaching me a lot about this loco (every cloud has a silver lining, as they say :) Max
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
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So went for the big switch on today :( After 3 attempts I got the transmitter to bind. Not quite as simple as it seems, the timing sequence is a bit tight :rolleyes: Checked that the battery's full 18.4 v were reaching the ESC, John's bridge rectifier(?) and finally the Sierra - all ok. All the right lights lit up. The sound card came to life immediately giving its blower and generator, and after a while at rest, the coal shovelling sounds :) Then I tested the variable voltage output from the ESC.....nothing, either to the bridge rectifier or loco connections (ok, a steady +.4v irrespective which way the regulator knob was turned, + or -). Not even a toot, or two, from the Sierra's whistle function to tell you whether you're going to go backwards or forwards or the sound of the air pumps confirming you you have dropped the voltage and come to a stop - part of the Sierra's functions when an initial voltage is put through it on the voltage controlled side and then reduced to nil :eek:

Before you ask - How can I be sure the transmitter is bound properly ? When I pressed the #3 button on the transmitter assigned to start up the Sierra's bell sequence it worked. That and the way the lights only gave a steady flash when the whole lot was powered up with the transmitter switched on. When I pressed the #2 button, assigned for the grade crossing whistle......nothing. Or even the #1 button that i was told was not. :wondering: Hmm.... I even altered the "power" curves available with this ESC to the "linear" option, it was set as supplied with a "prototypically" correct slow start, just incase the voltage delay might be confusing me or any other bit of the set up. Still no luck.

Never got round to hooking up the loco, for obvious reasons Methinks we have a problem with the ESC or the ESC's ability to communicate with the transmitter and also a possibly duff (1 of 2) pico switch too. Checked again everything is wired in tight and correct (JohnS had kindly taken the time to enlarge and trace my picture to make sure there are no obvious errors and gave it the ok) and tried 4 more times to see if I could get it all to function. Looks like I will be making a call to a supplier on Monday for further "diagnostics". Max
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
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So went for the big switch on today :( After 3 attempts I got the transmitter to bind. Not quite as simple as it seems, the timing sequence is a bit tight :rolleyes: Checked that the battery's full 18.4 v were reaching the ESC, John's bridge rectifier(?) and finally the Sierra - all ok. All the right lights lit up. The sound card came to life immediately giving its blower and generator, and after a while at rest, the coal shovelling sounds :) Then I tested the variable voltage output from the ESC.....nothing, either to the bridge rectifier or loco connections (ok, a steady +.4v irrespective which way the regulator knob was turned, + or -). Not even a toot, or two, from the Sierra's whistle function to tell you whether you're going to go backwards or forwards or the sound of the air pumps confirming you you have dropped the voltage and come to a stop - part of the Sierra's functions when an initial voltage is put through it on the voltage controlled side and then reduced to nil :eek:

Before you ask - How can I be sure the transmitter is bound properly ? When I pressed the #3 button on the transmitter assigned to start up the Sierra's bell sequence it worked. That and the way the lights only gave a steady flash when the whole lot was powered up with the transmitter switched on. When I pressed the #2 button, assigned for the grade crossing whistle......nothing. Or even the #1 button that i was told was not. :wondering: Hmm.... I even altered the "power" curves available with this ESC to the "linear" option, it was set as supplied with a "prototypically" correct slow start, just incase the voltage delay might be confusing me or any other bit of the set up. Still no luck.

Never got round to hooking up the loco, for obvious reasons Methinks we have a problem with the ESC or the ESC's ability to communicate with the transmitter and also a possibly duff (1 of 2) pico switch too. Checked again everything is wired in tight and correct (JohnS had kindly taken the time to enlarge and trace my picture to make sure there are no obvious errors and gave it the ok) and tried 4 more times to see if I could get it all to function. Looks like I will be making a call to a supplier on Monday for further "diagnostics". Max
OK, as chief numpty, I would be tempted to bind the ESC first, without the sound, and ensure the loco responds.

Then hook up the sound.

I haven't used a Fosworks ESC, but I have used Peter Spoerer's earlier version of it, and there's usually a flashing LED that will go constant when bound :nod::nod:

Check Fosy's instructions or start a conversation with Jon (Dunnyrail) as he's used a few of the Fosworks' ESCs
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
4,436
80
Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
OK, as chief numpty, I would be tempted to bind the ESC first, without the sound, and ensure the loco responds.

Then hook up the sound.

I haven't used a Fosworks ESC, but I have used Peter Spoerer's earlier version of it, and there's usually a flashing LED that will go constant when bound :nod::nod:

Check Fosy's instructions or start a conversation with Jon (Dunnyrail) as he's used a few of the Fosworks' ESCs
You have usurped me as "chief numpty" ? A palace revolution ? I progressed exactly as you did at the start. The ESC light settles after a few seconds to give a steady single flash rather than a continuous on, after the initial rapid flash when switched on and once it has bound (and indicating it is set for a linear power curve )I have followed the ESC's initial set up procedure. I have followed the supplied instructions to the letter (reading, re-reading and practising several times)

Should have mentioned that the Sierra card goes through all its time, rather than voltage dependent, functions fine as well as the tender wheel driven chuffs. Anything voltage dependent sequence though, e.g. directional whistles do not function. ?
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

Retired Oik
27 Oct 2009
24,520
313
North West Norfolk
You have usurped me as "chief numpty" ? A palace revolution ? I progressed exactly as you did at the start. The ESC light settles after a few seconds to give a steady single flash rather than a continuous on, after the initial rapid flash when switched on and once it has bound (and indicating it is set for a linear power curve )I have followed the ESC's initial set up procedure. I have followed the supplied instructions to the letter (reading, re-reading and practising several times)

Should have mentioned that the Sierra card goes through all its time, rather than voltage dependent, functions fine as well as the tender wheel driven chuffs. Anything voltage dependent sequence though, e.g. directional whistles do not function. ?
OK, still bouncing along on the bottom - does the loco need to be connected, i.e the motor need to be in circuit for the ESC to start chucking out the necessary stuff?