Chipping an LGB 24402 Alpine classic crocodile with sound

mbendebba

mbendebba

Registered
14 Feb 2010
516
0
Baltimore, MD, USA
Hello folks:
My name is Mohammed and I have been a closet member of this forum for quite some time. I live in the States and I have a small G scale layout (3m x 5m) in my basement. My rolling stock is eclectic but mostly European. I will be sharing a few pictures in the future.
I am about to chip an LGB 24402, the Alpine classic crocodile loco. The loco is factory-supplied with sound and a direct decoder interface. For chipping, LGB recommends a 55020 MTS decoder, a 55030 MTS motor power booster, and a 55026 MST decoder interface cable. I happen to have the motor power booster, the decoder interface cable, and a 55021 MTS decoder which is not very different from 55020. I plan to use them to chip the loco. The instructions for connecting them to the loco control board are clear and straight forward .
I have opened up the loco and identified all the connections and I am about to proceed with the installation. I have never chipped a sound equipped loco before, so I am seeking advice before I do it.
First, I noticed a bank of 6 dip switches on the control board. I suspect that some the dip switches must remain in the ?on? position and others need to be set to ?off? once the decoder is installed. Can anyone tell me which is which?
Second, I presume that once the decoder is installed, I would be able to control the loco sounds via MTS, but I have no idea how to go about programming the decoder to control the sounds. Can anyone tell which CVs need to set and to what values. According to the owner?s manual, the following sounds are available:
1: Whistle
2: Pantograph sound
3: Pantograph sound
4: Sound off/on
5: Departure announcement
6: Brake sound
7: Whistle with echo
8: Sound off/on for air pump, vacuum pump, and main fan

Thanks for the help

Mohammed
 
palmerston

palmerston

trains
24 Oct 2009
506
3
Netherlands, near Aachen ;-)
Setting CVs is not needed. They are "preprogrammed" Just connect the parts and try! push button 1 - 8
 
mbendebba

mbendebba

Registered
14 Feb 2010
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0
Baltimore, MD, USA
Thanks Palmerston. Easy as 1,2,3. I will do that as soon as I find out how to set the dip switches.

Mohammed
 
palmerston

palmerston

trains
24 Oct 2009
506
3
Netherlands, near Aachen ;-)
? The manual "
Hint:​
If this model is equipped
with a decoder, the digital/analog​
DIP switches on the loco circuit​
board must be set to OFF. The​
DIP switches should remain in​
this setting, even if the model is​
used on an analog layout."


 
stevelewis

stevelewis

Registered
24 Oct 2009
2,480
0
Buckley NR MOLD NORTH WALES
Hi Mohammed

To the best of my knowledge all dip switches should be set to OFF
 
mbendebba

mbendebba

Registered
14 Feb 2010
516
0
Baltimore, MD, USA
Thanks Steve, I am going to set all dips to off and see what happens.
 
mbendebba

mbendebba

Registered
14 Feb 2010
516
0
Baltimore, MD, USA
Thanks Palmerson. I did read that on page 10 of the manual, but I also read elsewhere, and do not remember where, that in sound-equipped loco some of the dip stwitches must remain in the on position. I am going to try setting them all off and see what happens.
 
stevelewis

stevelewis

Registered
24 Oct 2009
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0
Buckley NR MOLD NORTH WALES
Let us know what happens!

What part of the USA are you located in?

There are some GSC members in the States you never know there may be one just around the next bend!!
 
mbendebba

mbendebba

Registered
14 Feb 2010
516
0
Baltimore, MD, USA
Hello steve:

I live in Baltimore, 35 miles north of Washington. I will have sometime to work on the loco on thursday and I will let you know what happens.

Thanks for he help.

Mohammed
 
mbendebba

mbendebba

Registered
14 Feb 2010
516
0
Baltimore, MD, USA
Hello folks:

I installed the decoder (LGB 55021) , the motor power booster (LGB 55030), and the interface cable (LGB 55026) in to the crocodile and set all dip switches to the ?OFF? position. I programmed the decoder for a new loco address and a starting voltage of 5, using LGB computer interface 55045 and MTS pc program V6. The program recognized the decoder and indicated that the decoder was successfully programmed.
However, When I put the loco on the track and press the forward button on the remote, the loco takes off like a bat out of hell.
I rechecked the CV values and found that the starting voltage value has changed to 196. I reprogrammed it and went through the same steps again and I got the same result again.
I tested the decoder or a different loco and there appear to be nothing wrong with the decoder.
I reinstalled the decoder in the crocodile, rechecked my connections and tried again, and the same thing happened. I have no idea what is going. Did anyone experience anything like this before?

I have not tested the sound board yet.

 
P

Philbahn

Registered
24 Oct 2009
12,687
0
Swinton Manchester
Hello folks:

I installed the decoder (LGB 55021) , the motor power booster (LGB 55030), and the interface cable (LGB 55026) in to the crocodile and set all dip switches to the ?OFF? position. I programmed the decoder for a new loco address and a starting voltage of 5, using LGB computer interface 55045 and MTS pc program V6. The program recognized the decoder and indicated that the decoder was successfully programmed.
However, When I put the loco on the track and press the forward button on the remote, the loco takes off like a bat out of hell.
I rechecked the CV values and found that the starting voltage value has changed to 196. I reprogrammed it and went through the same steps again and I got the same result again.
I tested the decoder or a different loco and there appear to be nothing wrong with the decoder.
I reinstalled the decoder in the crocodile, rechecked my connections and tried again, and the same thing happened. I have no idea what is going. Did anyone experience anything like this before?

I have not tested the sound board yet.

Can you post a photograph of the interior.? With the chips in position
 
muns

muns

Moderator
Staff member
GSC Moderator
Hi, some comments, suggestions....

You say that the decoder is fine when installed in a different loco....I take it all the CV values are fine and as you programmed them (i.e. starting voltage = 5)?

Now the 55030 motor booster takes the motor outout from the decoder and provides enough power to drive 2 motor blocks. I would suspect that the '30 is at fault here.

The only suggestions that I can realistically come up with would be to

Try a different 55030, or
Use 2 55020/55021 decoders instead.
Use a 3Amp decoder instead - ie Massoth XL/XLS, ESU or LGB 55027.

BTW, I take it you have connected the decoder and booster as per the '30 instructions?

 
R

RhBGe6/6

RhB LGB
8 Feb 2010
63
0
Albany, NY
I am about to chip an LGB 24402, the Alpine classic crocodile loco. The loco is factory-supplied with sound and a direct decoder interface. For chipping, LGB recommends a 55020 MTS decoder, a 55030 MTS motor power booster, and a 55026 MST decoder interface cable. I happen to have the motor power booster, the decoder interface cable, and a 55021 MTS decoder which is not very different from 55020. I plan to use them to chip the loco.
Mohammed
If you can't get the MTS to work an easier option is to use a Massoth XL decoder. This is a simpler setup that the MTS rig, plus it can be programmed on the main. Massoth has LGB MTS interface cables available that will connect the LGB board on the loco to the MTS board. Even better, no soddering is required; all you need is a small screwdriver. Also, the Massoth board can identify serial and parallel commands, so its perfectly compatible with an MTS handheld or any other DCC system. I have used a XLS decoder in my Father's Alpine Classic Croc for years and it has worked without a flaw.
 
P

Philbahn

Registered
24 Oct 2009
12,687
0
Swinton Manchester
Like David says think I'd go for MassothXL. I find them cheaper than LGB on this side of the pond. £55.00 against £82 for MTS3. Plus you woulld be able to retro fit a Crock sound in stead of the generic lgb one
 
R

RhBGe6/6

RhB LGB
8 Feb 2010
63
0
Albany, NY
Like David says think I'd go for MassothXL. I find them cheaper than LGB on this side of the pond. £55.00 against £82 for MTS3. Plus you woulld be able to retro fit a Crock sound in stead of the generic lgb one
The Massoth XLS for the Croc uses the same sound files as the LGB engine, so unless you intend to use another company's sound sets there would be little difference in the sounds. Actually, I would say the sound system in the Alpine Classic is better than the later Massoth units. The only down side of using the XL is that the sounds must be triggered manually in serial with series of 1's. However, despite this problem I still find that using the original sound board in the engine driven by an XL decoder makes for a great sound engine.

Philbahn - Are there any other croc sound sets out there? I know that besides Massoth's XLS that Zimo has croc sounds, but I'm not sure how they compare?
 
mbendebba

mbendebba

Registered
14 Feb 2010
516
0
Baltimore, MD, USA
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I have checked and re-checked the instructions and the connections and they all appear to be as they should be. Unfortunately I do not have another 55030 to use for testing. I have had the one I used in the croc for quite some time and was hoping to put it to good use.
Based on the behavior of the loco, I think that the problem may be related to the connection between the decoder and the loco decoder interface.
First, when I tried to test the sound, I could only get the whistle sound and I could get it with any button I chose for Function 1 (CV 51)
Second, while the loco runs wild when I press the forward button of the remote once, it goes nowhere when I press the reverse button as many times as I wish. This behavior is reproducible in analogue mode as well, as long as the decoder is installed. I have not thought about CV54 until now. I will try to look at it tomorrow. May be that is where the problem lies.
I will probably end up installing a Massoth XL decoder using Massoth?s cable assembly. I can use the LGB decoder in another loco.
I will update after I look at CV, more closely and I will upload some images when I figure out how to do it.
 
P

Philbahn

Registered
24 Oct 2009
12,687
0
Swinton Manchester
Like David says think I'd go for MassothXL. I find them cheaper than LGB on this side of the pond. £55.00 against £82 for MTS3. Plus you woulld be able to retro fit a Crock sound in stead of the generic lgb one
The Massoth XLS for the Croc uses the same sound files as the LGB engine, so unless you intend to use another company's sound sets there would be little difference in the sounds. Actually, I would say the sound system in the Alpine Classic is better than the later Massoth units. The only down side of using the XL is that the sounds must be triggered manually in serial with series of 1's. However, despite this problem I still find that using the original sound board in the engine driven by an XL decoder makes for a great sound engine.

Philbahn - Are there any other croc sound sets out there? I know that besides Massoth's XLS that Zimo has croc sounds, but I'm not sure how they compare?
Sorry David wasn't quite thinking properly. Of course the factory fitted sound is best.
Here's mine
 
mbendebba

mbendebba

Registered
14 Feb 2010
516
0
Baltimore, MD, USA
Hello again:

I have now figured out how to post images and here they are. The second image shows the 55021 on the right, the 55030 on the left and the 55026 cable on top.

Phil: are all the dip switches on your croc set to the 'OFF" position?

Mohammed

 
KeithT

KeithT

Hillwalking, chickens and - err - garden railways.
24 Oct 2009
13,019
22
Nr Manchester
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I have checked and re-checked the instructions and the connections and they all appear to be as they should be. Unfortunately I do not have another 55030 to use for testing. I have had the one I used in the croc for quite some time and was hoping to put it to good use.
Based on the behavior of the loco, I think that the problem may be related to the connection between the decoder and the loco decoder interface.
First, when I tried to test the sound, I could only get the whistle sound and I could get it with any button I chose for Function 1 (CV 51)
Second, while the loco runs wild when I press the forward button of the remote once, it goes nowhere when I press the reverse button as many times as I wish. This behavior is reproducible in analogue mode as well, as long as the decoder is installed. I have not thought about CV54 until now. I will try to look at it tomorrow. May be that is where the problem lies.
I will probably end up installing a Massoth XL decoder using Massoth?s cable assembly. I can use the LGB decoder in another loco.
I will update after I look at CV, more closely and I will upload some images when I figure out how to do it.
That is interesting, I have had very similar problems when I fiited a QSI card to a Bachmann K27, ie bell only no matter which button I pressed and the loco running wild after 2 presses in reverse and half speed with 1 forward press.
the card went back!
 
mbendebba

mbendebba

Registered
14 Feb 2010
516
0
Baltimore, MD, USA
hello keith:

I am certain that the problem is not in the hardware or the connections but in the software, i.e. the programming. Did you ever resolve the problem?