Cable Ducts / Trunking

[James Day]

My current line is now in it's fourth year. It was built with the aim of getting my trains out into the garden quickly and mainly followed a pre-existing concrete path that went the full length from the house to the rear fence.

I used what can best be described as a 'temporary layout' wiring system of bespoke colour coded set length leads that were ganged alongside the track, often using LGB cable clips. I am very into LGB automation and block signalling, so there were a lot of wires! More were aded in time for good measure!

The layout works well, and is still very reliable. It has been extended twice onto purpose built slate ballasted formations and I grew to like them a lot. They looked good and drained well.

I have come to the conclusion that the whole layout would be better on a purpose built ballasted formation. The ideal place for this is on the rather overgrown flower bed area between the path and the fence. This will enable me to raise the whole track, and even out the undulations between my near and far branches and the far return loop. These will all be retained and joined onto the new track plan.

The centre section will end up several inches higher than the path and lawn. It will also free up the path for walking on, which will be a novelty! This will help preserve the lawn after it has rained, which is does every now and again.

This will be my project for the Autumn/Winter. Track lifting is planned for late September.

I am looking at putting as much of the wiring as possible into trunking to run the length of the layout under the ballasted formation and base this provision on the number of wires I have in use already, around 40 pairs in some places! The plan is to arrange them in pre numbered pairs with strategically placed access points.

This is where I need some advice - I am looking to source some suitable trunking material. My plan is to bury that in the crushed slate which will form the new formation. Overall the route followed is largely going to be straight and the plan is have a few carefully placed junction boxes, like small manholes where I can also take off wires going to specific local places.

I am reasoning that if the junction boxes have watertight lids, drain holes on the underside and are sunk into the ballast, they should stay dry. I need to work out a way of getting wires out from the junction boxes to points, signals and isolated sections without allowing too much water in.

So, has anyone attempted anything similar? If so please share your experiences - What pipes or trunking did you use? How easy was it to install and how well has it worked?

James

 

[sparky230]

Flexable conduit, ip juction boxes, with screwed gland entries, compression glands on outlets, all stuff avalible in yr nearest wholesalers
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Conduit_Pvc_Index/Flexible_Conduit/index.html
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_I...ures_Index/Boxes_Adaptable_Moulded/index.html
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Accessories_Index/Gland_Compression_Nylon_1/index.html

Thats how my wiring is done, but I'm a spark by trade, flex conduit goes between Ip boxes, with the conduit screwed into boxes, I use the wispa ones, compression gland out with cables that exit box. wires can be added or removed using a draw tape, if you dont overfill the conduit.

This is all standard industrial wiring stuff.

 

[fridge]

And for the amateur, for low voltage cables only, a length of garden hose, stopped at the ends with silicon to keep out the creepy crawlies. I used this years ago for a pond pump and garden lighting. It survived some years before I replaced it with solar powered gear.

 

[James Day]

Sparky,

Thank you.

That is exactly the sort of link I was hoping for! I am thinking PVC rather than steel for the trunking. I am using LGB sized cables or similar substitutes, with slightly heavier cable used for the main 5amp section supplies. How many pairs could I reasonably expect each trunk route to carry?

The glands are great too.

It seems to all bolt together, with pre-prepared junction holes on the boxes, which is another very big plus!

James

 

[sparky230]

I use the 20mm version in plastic, I can get 4 cat5e cables in each with space, I run the power busses seperate as 2 1.5mm fp200 as had it spare fp200 doesn't need trunking, but I wouldn't expect people to normally use fp200.

 

[sparky230]

Sparky,

Thank you.

That is exactly the sort of link I was hoping for! I am thinking PVC rather than steel for the trunking. I am using LGB sized cables or similar substitutes, with slightly heavier cable used for the main 5amp section supplies. How many pairs could I reasonably expect each trunk route to carry?

The glands are great too.

It seems to all bolt together, with pre-prepared junction holes on the boxes, which is another very big plus!

James

the flexy conduit comes with ends that screw into the wispa boxes, then the glands also screw into the wispa box, the wispa boxes have pre threaded holes.

 

[James Day]

[QUOsTE="sparky230, post: 446459, member: 1364"]I use the 20mm version in plastic, I can get 4 cat5e cables in each with space, I run the power busses seperate as 2 1.5mm fp200 as had it spare fp200 doesn't need trunking, but I wouldn't expect people to normally use fp200.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for this and the other response, I am thinking a Cat 5e cable is around the same size as three to four LGB cable sized pairs, although it is probably time for me to experiment with other smaller types/sizes of cable, as if they are going into a duct they are going to be better protected from the elements.

James

 

[PhilP]

You will get (up to) 6 of the LGB-type figure of eight cables in a 20mm conduit.. This will leave a little 'wiggle room' for that odd extra cable at a later date. - That last one will be tight though!
You can go to 25mm conduit, or probably run two 20mm, to keep all the 'bits' the same. - Less waste.

 

[dutchelm]

Just bury the wires under the ballast. Just don't use brown wire as the birds think it's a worm.
The only problem I have had is a mouse chewed through an umprotected cable under my shed where the cables came out of the ground.

 

[sparky230]

Never had mouse trouble, I had to duct all my cables, because of much larger 4 legged creatures, namely 2 staffs, one GSD/cross and a husky

 

[James Day]

You will get (up to) 6 of the LGB-type figure of eight cables in a 20mm conduit.. This will leave a little 'wiggle room' for that odd extra cable at a later date. - That last one will be tight though!
You can go to 25mm conduit, or probably run two 20mm, to keep all the 'bits' the same. - Less waste.

Thanks Phil,

That is less than I was hoping. Even I use some smaller wires it looks like a struggle to fit it all in two......

James

 

[idlemarvel]

You might need to do some "wiring consolidation" meaning is there any scope for using common returns rather than a pair of wires for everything. Thinking of sensors, track power sections, lighting, etc.

 

[James Day]

Dave,

That is a good idea:

For example the AC common supply for all the EPL drives and the block signalling is the same, so the supply from the main control area to the local distributor for an automated loop, would need three wires ORANGE/BLACK/WHITE instead of the four I tend to use now. These enable the reeds to be switched on or off and also allow the point to be remotely set. However the bonus is that the 'white' wire could serve all the local signals and other EPLs so the saving is more than 25%.

I need to do some more counting!

James

 

[PhilP]

Just make sure a 'common' return is a heavy enough gauge wire for your load. - Though sensors, reeds etc. are momentary loads, so should not be a problem.

 

[James Day]

Just make sure a 'common' return is a heavy enough gauge wire for your load. - Though sensors, reeds etc. are momentary loads, so should not be a problem.

Good advice Phil.

The heavy duty supplies will be the thee 5a traction supplies to the three seperate sections of the main line, the 5amp lighting supply and the neat 5amp 22v AC, which powers all the automation.

The three traction supplies for the branches are only 2 amp as they don't have such big locos or large fully lit trains.

A big part of this project will be working out what the new track plan will be, which will enable me to plan where the cabling will need to go. I will probably need to do some measuring and then spend a few hours on my Anyrail!

James

 

[dunnyrail]

Have a look at some of my threads, I use Plastic Electrical Trunking excluseively for my Wires and Air Cables. Some I hide behind baseboards and others in full view to represent Concrete Troughing. Even the Harz had this stuff in East German Days. I use BnQ Stuff and Spray it Black or Grey.
JonD

 

[sparky230]

Some pointers, never buy trunking or conduit from b&q or wickes, you will be ripped off, The wholesalers like TLC, City Electrical, Kew, Newey's, will sell to the public, you will also find great deals on lightbulbs for yr house, the DIY sheds on electrical items will see you coming.

 

[stockers]

Agreed Sparky - same with timber - find a timber yard, the sheds are expensive and often supply cheap under sized rubbish ay double the price.. Some of their decking is laughable

 

[dunnyrail]

That may be and is true. But for limited amounts and ability to get quick if you do not have a local specialist the Shed works for me. In truth I did get the wrong stuff with Adhesive Tape on the back first which was more expensive, but the non stick stuff worked out not too bad for what I needed. Though when I did the 80ft run along the complete Garden both sides, perhaps a wholesaler would have worked out less expensive. Too late for me now, but at least in a Shed you can look at what you may need. Sometimes Measurements do not always cut the Mustard as they are External rather than Internal and dealing over perhaps the Net at a distance does not always work.
JonD

 

[James Day]

Thanks Guys,

I appreciate the advice from you all. I will look at the stuff in the Sheds to get a feel for what there is and how it may be used.

I have a feeling that this project is going to be very much in the vein of 'suck it and see' as the space available is irregular in shape and peppered with several trees, which are destined to be preserved during the clearnaces that will come.

I doubt if I will really be able to determine exactly where all the tracks will go until the clearance is done and the site is levelled.

So although I will play around on my anyrail, I think the real answer to what wires are needed where will be arrived at by a dy track assembly on the roughly levelled surface. This can then be recorded on Anyrail and then lifted, after which the conduits and access points will be planned and then installed.

This is going to be a long project, of which the tasks above are just some of those to be tackled. Other tasks to resolved include obtaining a concrete viaduct to provide the return loop at the near end, which must go around the pond and the provision of a small shelter to house the controls.

Clearance will start as soon as the running season on the current layout is over and right now I am taking every opportunity I can to get out there with the trains!

James