Thats a shame I was hopeing to use the existing switch, hope I can find room for the regulator and seperate switch its all going to be abit cramped, good news about the polarity of the Massoth regulator that was a concern no Chinese cheapo ones for me then.
better smoke on Stainz 20212
- Thread starter chris333
- Start date
neil
im confused
do the smokers have polarity?
why would i need a rectifier to hook up anything if i want smoke (or for that matter, lights) on in any directoin?
chris
as far as smokers only,
i dont think a switch is critical
first the 5v versions, according to LGB, can be run dry without damage
second
the 18 or 24 volt versions really only 'light up' at pretty high voltage ie about more than 12-14 volts
so, you are running at race track speeds (so you will be conscious of when the unit is getting higer voltage and for the most part, its not the 'norm' for somewhat protypical speed)
which i do , when i want the lil b(*gers to smoke furiously, but for most of the time, i know its not overheating at low voltage-(they run fine at 3-7 volts)
i have several of the latter, which i simply leave connected all the time, and keep a few drops in the stack while running, like a heat ballast of sort
if you run at 5-10 volts (about) they dont seem to produce smoke -probably a tiuny wisp at most
the point being that unless this switch really important to you, you can probably make do without
im confused
do the smokers have polarity?
why would i need a rectifier to hook up anything if i want smoke (or for that matter, lights) on in any directoin?
chris
as far as smokers only,
i dont think a switch is critical
first the 5v versions, according to LGB, can be run dry without damage
second
the 18 or 24 volt versions really only 'light up' at pretty high voltage ie about more than 12-14 volts
so, you are running at race track speeds (so you will be conscious of when the unit is getting higer voltage and for the most part, its not the 'norm' for somewhat protypical speed)
which i do , when i want the lil b(*gers to smoke furiously, but for most of the time, i know its not overheating at low voltage-(they run fine at 3-7 volts)
i have several of the latter, which i simply leave connected all the time, and keep a few drops in the stack while running, like a heat ballast of sort
if you run at 5-10 volts (about) they dont seem to produce smoke -probably a tiuny wisp at most
the point being that unless this switch really important to you, you can probably make do without
Apologies for the confusion.stevedenver said:
It's not the smoke units that are polarity sensitive but I think the cheapo Chinese voltage regulators are. Assuming that the wiring for an 18V smoke unit connects to the track this may change polarity when the loco reverses.
Yes, the Chinese versions are polarity sensitive. The rectifier is one way, but I would think that a diode would work if you only wanted smoke in forward running. Come to think of it, I'm sure I have the cheapo version of voltage regulator and I run forward and reverse. I'll have to check on it as it's been a couple of years since I installed it. Here is a slightly better video I took today. In this video, the Stainz is running on battery power. I converted to battery power about a year and a half ago.
http://youtu.be/2Q3jKDLpYS4
http://youtu.be/2Q3jKDLpYS4
im sorry to be so dim
but, if the chinese step down unit is polarity sensitive
and so is it's rectifier
what is the practical impact on lights and the smoke unit-if any
specifically-do the light shut off, or the unit stop providing power because of the rectifier when polarity is reversed,
or what happens???
does this mean that the rectifier kicks in when you might not want it to?
obviously i understand only enough to be confused, again
i had presumed this thing was simply a variable resitor of sorts that one can adjust -ie max voltage input, eg 22v, input and desired out put, ie 5-7 volts, and would work in either dierction, when hooked to track power via the motor or its board -ie smoke unit plugs ,in the loco
but, if the chinese step down unit is polarity sensitive
and so is it's rectifier
what is the practical impact on lights and the smoke unit-if any
specifically-do the light shut off, or the unit stop providing power because of the rectifier when polarity is reversed,
or what happens???
does this mean that the rectifier kicks in when you might not want it to?
obviously i understand only enough to be confused, again
i had presumed this thing was simply a variable resitor of sorts that one can adjust -ie max voltage input, eg 22v, input and desired out put, ie 5-7 volts, and would work in either dierction, when hooked to track power via the motor or its board -ie smoke unit plugs ,in the loco
The voltage regulator uses an electronic chip and electrolytic capacitors that would be damaged by connecting to reverse polarity. With battery power it could be fed from the battery without any rectifier as the battery potential doesn't change when the loco reverses, unlike analogue track power which reverses potential to reverse the loco.
All the rectifier does is ensure that its output (the input to the voltage regulator) remains the same when the input to the rectifier (track voltage) reverses.
All the rectifier does is ensure that its output (the input to the voltage regulator) remains the same when the input to the rectifier (track voltage) reverses.
Thanks for your input Neil,
sorry if im going over old ground but you mentioned before that if I use the Massoth regulator I dont need to be concerned about polarity. Also can you recommend a switch unit and how to fit it, I think I can fit the regulator in the cab maybe I could put the switch in there aswell.
sorry if im going over old ground but you mentioned before that if I use the Massoth regulator I dont need to be concerned about polarity. Also can you recommend a switch unit and how to fit it, I think I can fit the regulator in the cab maybe I could put the switch in there aswell.
so, Neil,
i must add, in front of the unit, ie between track power and the unit,
a double rectifier to proect the step down unit , correct?
i must add, in front of the unit, ie between track power and the unit,
a double rectifier to proect the step down unit , correct?
Short answer, yes.stevedenver said:
Slightly longer answer is, as Dan Padova suggested use a single diode if you only need the loco to smoke in one direction.
If you do go for a rectifier you could make one from four diodes or use a ready made one such as a W02.
http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/1-5A-Bridge-rectifiers-29687 < Link To http://www.rapidonline.co...ridge-rectifiers-29687
Speaking of regulators. I see that Piko has one. #36143, in their catalog. Would anyone know if it's polarity sensitive?
Hey Dan, another nice video.
Im going to take the sensible option and put in the 5v funnel smoker via the Massoth regulator. You said that you have done this in your #3 Stainz and put the regulator in the cab. Please could you let me know have to wire it all up, I have got access to the existing 18v smoke connection, can I connect the new 5v smoker to this connection via the regulator with no other alterations. Also do I need to put a switch in somwehere as its going to run for long periods with no fluid in.
Im going to take the sensible option and put in the 5v funnel smoker via the Massoth regulator. You said that you have done this in your #3 Stainz and put the regulator in the cab. Please could you let me know have to wire it all up, I have got access to the existing 18v smoke connection, can I connect the new 5v smoker to this connection via the regulator with no other alterations. Also do I need to put a switch in somwehere as its going to run for long periods with no fluid in.
chris333 said:
Disconnect the existing smoke unit from the two pins it is connected to now. Run two wires from these pins to the regulator in the cab. Route one of those two wires to a switch before continuing on to the regulator. This will allow you to switch power of to the regulator, thus the smoke unit. OK, now from the regulator's output side, run two wires to the new 5 volt smoke unit. You will most likely need to dis-assemble the loco to acomplish all of this. You can use a miniature on/off toggle switch and mount it under the cab floor. The toggle will be protruding from the bottom of the cab. The boxy part of the switch will be inside of the cab. This will allow the the wire running from the pins, on top of the motor block, to be soldered to the switch lug. I am not that smart when it comes to making a sketch on the computer and trying to upload it here. Maybe someone else can help us with that.
If you need more help please ask away.
Thanks guys thats really helpful. Im going to taclkle it in the next couple of days so I might need some more advise when I get down to the nitty gritty. What would be the best fluid to put in should I get the ready made stuff Massoth/LGB or use the 50/50 citronella- barbeque fuel that Ive heard people use.
chris333 said:
Chris if this is for indoor use ? only use the manufacturers fluids.
Mixed fluid as many of us use is only suitable for out side use, as it gives of an oily air born residue, which some discussions lead one to believe may be quite toxic.
Also over time it builds up and settles on surfaces, this i have seen on the glass of a display window (external to the shop) where a stainz ran regularly with the smoke on.
chris i guess to some extent,
its not only health,
but economics.
I love the smokers and always fill them
others never use them. I use a good deal of fluid.
The LGB fluid is great-it will clean wheels and plastic as well, without greasy residue.
It has no ill effects-other than it is toxic if inhaled directly-and dont drink it !
Overall it leaves virtually no tell tale scent , and while it must leave some type residue from being vaporized and settling, it is compartively light compared to home brew.
its up to you
the other possible aspect, might be, home brew might , might, be a solvent to some kinds of paint-
(as might LGB for that matter).
oh yes but one other thing that has occured in my home brew use,[style="background-color: #00ff00;"] is that i BELIEVE, that it evaporates hotter than LGB fluid, because i have deformed 2-3 of the stack grates on both turban stainz stacks and cook stacks on the 2017's
[style="background-color: #00ff00;"]this has never occurred with LGB fluid, and thus i think it is due to the home brew mix-so that might be the tie breaker
(i simply bought replacement grates some time back,before LGB went under-when you could easily and cheaply)
theres nothing to making the mix-
get a plastic jar, the kind that will not melt or soften with bbq and light oil
with a tight fitting cap, and mix bbq and high quality lamp oil (i use non scented and clear to reduce 'stuff' in it
the mixture need be no more precise than an eyeball approximation of half and half
then as mentioned, do not fill more than 1/3 of the smoker for best results-
its not only health,
but economics.
I love the smokers and always fill them
others never use them. I use a good deal of fluid.
The LGB fluid is great-it will clean wheels and plastic as well, without greasy residue.
It has no ill effects-other than it is toxic if inhaled directly-and dont drink it !
Overall it leaves virtually no tell tale scent , and while it must leave some type residue from being vaporized and settling, it is compartively light compared to home brew.
its up to you
the other possible aspect, might be, home brew might , might, be a solvent to some kinds of paint-
(as might LGB for that matter).
oh yes but one other thing that has occured in my home brew use,[style="background-color: #00ff00;"] is that i BELIEVE, that it evaporates hotter than LGB fluid, because i have deformed 2-3 of the stack grates on both turban stainz stacks and cook stacks on the 2017's
[style="background-color: #00ff00;"]this has never occurred with LGB fluid, and thus i think it is due to the home brew mix-so that might be the tie breaker
(i simply bought replacement grates some time back,before LGB went under-when you could easily and cheaply)
theres nothing to making the mix-
get a plastic jar, the kind that will not melt or soften with bbq and light oil
with a tight fitting cap, and mix bbq and high quality lamp oil (i use non scented and clear to reduce 'stuff' in it
the mixture need be no more precise than an eyeball approximation of half and half
then as mentioned, do not fill more than 1/3 of the smoker for best results-