Bachmann geared Locos - advice for a novice please

[Fitz Orchard]

As I have begun to learn my way back into G gauge after many years away I have become fascinated by the geared Shay and Climax locos and would love to get (at least) one. Their history is amazing and I just think that the mechanical actions must make them even more fascinating to watch running.
I am a complete novice having only ever purchased new LGB locos in the distant past. As I have read more about these locos it seems likely that pre-owned Bachmann will be have to be my target - I am never going to shell out over £4k for an LGB one which I would be frightened to ever run!
I have also come across a number of threads and discussions about issues with the Bachmann Shays - problems with Muzak castings on motor blocks, broken truck frames and transmission/broken gear issues. It seems that these problems are most likely to occur in 'early' models and that later versions have improved - or is it just that early ones are older and have been used more?
Several of you are obviously great fans of these locos so I am not put off but if I am to embark on searching for one how can I limit the risk of getting a problem one - is there an age maximum to be guided by and how to diagnose from inspection if the problems exist?
Obviously only buying after a detailed inspection and test running would be ideal so perhaps I should avoid e-bay - or even sites like Footplate (who have several examples available)?
Any sage guidance from enthusiastic experts would be very gratefully received.
Thanks all
Fitz (David)

 

[PhilP]

I would be less concerned buying from Footplate, although 'stuff' that has only gone through the 'warehouse' (rather than been in the shop) might be slightly more questionable?

I have had many items from them, and only one has gone back, with the minimum of fuss.

Almost anything can be fixed. But it can be expensive, as Bachmann Europe, do not keep parts. - This means spares have to come from the USA, for these models.

PhilP.

 

[dunnyrail]

I did buy and sold a Bachmann Shay oh and a Climax as well from USA many moons ago, I seam to remember that I bought a few differing kinds of Lubricant for the differing parts. All gone off and gone now.

 

[FatherMcD]

I did buy and sold a Bachmann Shay oh and a Climax as well from USA many moons ago, I seam to remember that I bought a few differing kinds of Lubricant for the differing parts. All gone off and gone now.

I bought a Climax years ago that I haven't even run yet! It was on a closeout sale from a major retailer here in the US and thus at a great price. For a couple of years now it has been a shelf queen. One thing I noted is that the manual makes a point of lubricating multiple places before running it for the first time. And there are a lot of places to lube!! I think that has put me off. Anyone have a spare tuit?

 

[maxi-model]

I have one of each of the geared loco types that Bachman have produced - the Heisler, both 2 & 3 truck Shays and the Climax (I have 2). The first thing to know about the Bachmann geared loco products is that there have been more than one version of the 2 truck Shay and Climax. There are distinguishing visual features. It's the early versions of these geared products that tend to be the ones with issues. There has only ever been a single, early, issue of the Heisler. Good point to start, with anyone these early products is to take look here Large Scale Tech Tips

Really you should perhaps limit yourself to the 2nd generation versions of these products (usually identifiable by the legend "DCC ready" on the box end tech details) the 2 & 3 truck Shay and the Climax. These are all are good reliable runners in my experience. My favourite is the compact Climax model. One does hear of bits falling off well used Shays' complex looking and intricate steam cylinder valve gear and motions though. Latterly Bachmann produced thhese versions with Soundtraxx tsunami sound factory fitted. These could be run in either DC or DCC environments, as supplied, with the sound operable in both modes. But more functionality could be gained by running as DCC. These last models could be your safest bet but possibly the most expensive to buy (excluding the old Heislers, for other reasons). One of my Climax's is of this type.

If you are considering using with battery operation & RC, then keep in mind both 2 truck Shay and Climax offer limited space for extra equipment and you may need a trailer wagon for your battery pack unless you use a Li-On type battery (for their compactness). All my Bachmann geared locos have been converted to Battery/RC operation, although they started out as track powered when I bought and operated them. ESU have a fantastic range of authentic sounds, using their V5 range of DCC cards, that match all of these Bachmann geared locos. They can be used for both track powered or Battery/RC (they act as the ESC as well as sound cards in the latter mode). I have used an old Soundtraxx Sierra card, specific to the Climax loco, in one convertion.

In conclusion. All the Bachmann locos are based on actual prototypes that ran in real life, they are not "freelance"models. Some people are concerned that these locos are "too delicate" because of their resulting fine and accurate detail. I learnt how to handle my roster properly, and quickly. I find operating these locos an absolute joy, watching their beautifuly replicated steam motions and vavlgear furiously working away as they trundle round at a sedate pace. That and their unsual outlines. By virtue of their design they are all good load pullers. Note, after years of languishing with poor resale values enthusiast are starting to push up prices as they are all out of productionand as a result in demand. The issue of the poor mazak castings only affected one bach of 2 truck Shays. This is not an age related issue that affected all models and generations. When buying ask questions or go via a reputable dealer. Max

This is by far not a definitive review, just things picked up from personal experience. I bought my first Bachmann geared loco 20 years ago from the late Al Kramer in the US, a NIB 3 truck Shay. Any reported issues surrounding these products, and their rectification if practical, can usually be addressed by a quick Google search with a clearly defined term. Or, on here and othe LS railway forums in the US, like Large Scale Central

Heisler has ESU sound, the Climax the old Soundtaxx Sierra card

Triple header 3 truck Shay, Heisler, Climax, track power, no sound fitted.

 

[Moonraker]

If you need an economic sound solution to work with radio control then the MyLocoSound US steam soundcard handles geared locomotives. In the UK, MyLocoSound and radio controls are available from Fosworks, Micron and LocoControl.

Regards
Peter Lucas
MyLocoSound

 

[stevedenver]

David:

Thoroughly read the manual.
I believe the first gen Shay can be identified in that it only came with a diamond stack. If you find pics of the diecast truck bottoms, that too can be a guide.

1 handle/transport with care. Stuff falls off /breaks easily. The shays are heavy, less so the climax. Do not underestimate this. Ive done more damage to my bmann spectrum locos just getting them on the track. I support them from the bottom.
2 check the right of way for any debris. This protects delicate pilots and debris from fouling/being drawn into gears. If you use lgb power clamps, make sure they are dead flush with the top of the rail (to avoid pilot from hanging up).
3 lubricate as needed. Everything, sparingly but thoroughly. Theres a lot to do. If you have power cables, i use dry graphite to lightly lube the sleeve, as otherwise the fit can be very tight.pulling on the cable, instead of the plug, can result in the cable breaking. I will use a tool to prise the plug, tiny pliers or screw driver.
4 these are not weatherproof. Bring them in from bad weather. If i leave them out during good weather, i still put them in a loco shed when im away.
5 if you dont have the metal trucks (shay), get them while you’re able, they are worth every penny, even at present prices.
6 do not run the smoker dry. If you dont use, turn it off. I love smoke, and i attend to the fluid level. Sometimes, the smokers leak, badly.
7 do not run for any period of length at voltage over 15-16 volts. This can upset the electronics. If the smoke box/cab light start to flash, voltage is too high. This is in the manual.
8 i have a 1st gen shay. A big pita. First i rebuilt the trucks. Slight improvement. Then i Replaced orig trucks with die cast. Wow, what difference. I have 3 truck shay, no issues. 2 climaxs, no issiues, but…one has slight rub /delay on one cylinder.im unsure if this is ‘timing’ or a bind.
9 regularly check the transmission… the drive shafts, universal joints. Keep stuff clean. Be aware that on R1, the shay drive shafts just barely fit in their sleeves, depending upon if the geared section is on the inside or outside of the curve. They can become detached. You dont want the drive shafts dragging to avoid damage
10 i avoid heavy loads due to the general strain, and greater chance of unequal distribution of stress, ie front truck/rear truck. Climaxs can have unequal drive shaft torque. Search this, as i dont recall the solution. Try the geologogically improbable railroad (girr.org) site, eg “tips on bachmann shay/climax” this site has some great information about locos and tech tips.
Be aware that some electronics , typically in the tender/bunker run warm, the climax has a fan in the bunker, as i recall , too, typically the moguls and consolidations, havent noticed this with the geared locos. Point, be aware, and, hot sun can add to heating up the electronics.
11 enjoy and realize that parts are rare, some unobtainable. I take the attitude that i am SOL if and when it breaks. Thus i take greater care. These locos are monstrously complex , tiny parts, compared to lgb.
12, i have yet to find a good way to use any coupler other than stock. Thus i use idler cars between bachmann and lgb i hope this helps

 

[maxi-model]

There is a solution to the coupler height conundrum caused by past Bachmann marketing misconceptions.Eventually this was overcome, rather late in the day, by issuing later products with dual height couplers. My solution with the 2 and 3 truck Shays is a bit of jiggery pokery using the frame mounted multi height coupler pocket and a Kadee coupler, with its pivot sleeved to match the coupler pocket post. It works down to 3 ft radius curves but does not pivot enough below that radius to work reliably. Kadee offered a lot of off the peg solutions to fix coupler height mismatch issues, but strangely not for the Shays. So check their website if trying to fix othe Bachmann locos and stock.

That and, yes, I have an "idler car". My "idler car" is very multi functional ! Its base is a modified Aristocraft 20ft gondola. It firstly acts as a battery wagon for my Climaxes and the Shay 2 truck, full 16 cell AA NiMH pack. It is equipped with kuckle couplers at both available heights used in lager scale. Also - link and pin, hook and loop and UK 16mm scale dumb centre buffer and chopper types. It has all those so guests on my line can couple just about anything to anything as they are all individually mounted either end. If that is not enough it has an adapted cycle speedo fitted, set to translate at 1:20.3 scale speed. 2 pi R was involved in that calibration. I like to keep a steady 25 mph with my rodded locos Before I went all battery it acted as regular "in session" track cleaner using LGB's 50050 bolt in attachment, it still can. It's a short wagon so can be used to ease the passage of some larger stock when interposed to add a little bit more articulation. Max

3 truck Shay with modded Kadee coupler to operate at NMRA Fn3 coupler height standard. Hauling NAMRA coup.er height standard stock


The very useful "idler car" with my 2 truck Shay. Fn3 height coupling. Bag of couplers always showed and ready.


Just a little more articulation. There's an Elvis song about that, isn't there ?

 

[Fitz Orchard]

Many Thanks to all who have responded - very clear and helpful advice. My enthusiasm for these locos is strengthened and I feel better informed about what to look for. Now to find something.........

 

[stevedenver]

Fwiw, i love the climax. Its significantly smaller than even a 2 truck shay. (They are really quite large). Also, on this side of the pond, more available and cheaper than a shay. The sound version is nice, if a bit quiet.

Good hunting