Aristo-Craft Southern Pacific GS-4

The first couple of hundred or so destroyed their drive train when you put them on the track. The mechanism, made by LGB for their plastic-bodied 2-8-2s - the Santa Fe and the SNCF 141R locos, were not up to hauling an eight-pound all-metal body around, let alone half a dozen cars. I had two before I go one that worked with a redesigned drive train - said to have life-time guarantee. It works pretty well, TBH, as you can see in this little movie -

 
I'm not sure everyone appreciates what a rare bird this is, it's not an "LGB Mikado", but the Aster/LGB Mikado, brass body by Aster, limited run


Yup, LGB provided the 8-coupled chassis to Aster in Japan, who had already made the little Ruegen 0-6-0 Frank+S in live steam. The initial failure of just about every single one of these beautiful models was a real reality check to Aster, who did not go on to make any more models with all-LGB drive trains

I wrote this back in 2009 on Mylargescale - Greg probably remembers it.....

Anything that Aster built in its entirety seems to have worked just fine - the NYC Hudson and the Shays - and the NSW AD60 Garratt, of course.

It was when they were obliged to use an electric drive-train that was not only fitted with out-of-scale wheels, but feeble beyond belief, in spite of its august LGB ancestry, that things went tits-up.

The WP mike was an opportunity for LGB to build a much-needed model that nobody else had the cojones to build - a REAL 1/22.5 mike to scale dimensions in just about every respect - do a search on my posts from a few years ago where I measured the real thing against the model. Such a model really needed, from the off, to be built by a master model builder, and LGB had worked successfully with both Aster and Magnus before, but it was to Aster that they eventually returned. This opportunity had only come about because all of a sudden, LGB had an eight-coupled drive-train that satisfied the need to bend in the middle - the one they developed for their plastic 1/27th scale 'mainline mikes, US and French.

Sadly, the LGB engineers had not done their homework, and the drive-train, more than adequate for hauling a plastic body-shell around, failed dismally and almost instantaneously when installed in a 4.5 kilogram all-metal body. I had THREE before I got one that lasted more than literally half a minute, and that recently died on me in the middle of a show, causing a LOT of embarrassment and necessitating a lot of help from my favourite cousin, Jerry McColgan, in trouble-shooting it and getting it back together.

Without naming any names, but Zubi knows who I mean, Aster were mortified and embarrassed beyond measure that their name was associated with this expensive disaster that bore their name.


Let's just look at a few good points about this model -

1. Apart from the drivers, which were a scale 52" diameter instead of the prototype's 48", it was about as near as darnit all to 1/22.5 scale.

2. Because of the above scale, it worked well with LGB's passenger cars, although not so much with the hugely distorted caboose [also sold in red or blue as 'radio car' version].

3. As with the plastic Mikes, it went around R1 curves, for those kiddy-winkies who ran them around their playroom furniture and whose mommy and daddy could afford the $4000 hanger tag. It did, however, look ludicrous whilst doing so.

And now the bad points -

1. At 1/22.5, the gauge-to-scale ratio was wrong - 45mm gauge track in 1/22.5 is metre gauge, not the three-foot of the White Pass.

2. The-then popular and burgeoning scale of Fn3 - or 1/20.3 scale - was coming of age, with Bachmann and Accucraft beginning to produce some wondrous models in both electric and, in the case of Accucraft, live-steam., LGB totally missed this market with their undersized model.

3. The panning suffered by LGB at the awful record of this high-priced model destroyed the relationship between them and Aster Hobbies for ever. Aster felt that they had been tainted by the association, and the cooperation ended right there. When I lived and worked in Tokyo in the early noughties, the bunch of live steamers that pal Zubi and I belonged to naturally had a couple of members from Aster, just down the road from our usual meeting-place in Yokohama. Let's just say that after mentioning it once, the words 'embarrassing fiasco' were heard a couple of times, and then, no more.

As an aside, Accucraft went of to produce a beautiful live-steam model of the EBT's #12, as well as a range of passenger cars that might have looked good behind a correct-for-gauge model of #73. Sadly, Accucraft failed to ride the wave of the the worldwide fame of the White Pass railway - with almost a million passengers a year, pre-Flu, probably THE most popular NG line on earth, with a host of fans worldwide, and never produced a correct scale #73. I opine that they would have sold like ice-creams at Coney Island in July 4th - I certainly would have gone into debt for one.

BTW, Magnus made a beautiful but extremely fragile 1/22.5 K27 for LGB - again, loony prices apply. As for the LGB/Aster loco, one well-known dealer here in UK is looking for around £3000 for one.

This gentleman has a very interesting web-site set up solely for LGB products and the fixing-up thereof - LGB Mikado
 
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In my opinion, companies that make beautiful models, often fail to make rugged drivetrains, or even properly geared ones.

So, Aster has little experience with an "everyday" G scale drivetrain, but to be fair, they did not design it.

LGB is mostly to blame in my opinion in not taking the simple steps of weighting down a Mikado and seeing what it did to pulling power, engine current, all the normal things an engineer would check. (It would not have taken long to have the drivetrain self destruct).

Anyway, the upgraded drivetrain and caution does work.

Greg
 
the drivers, which were a scale 52" diameter instead of the prototype's 48"
Tac, I'm curious about that info. Are the drivers really scale 52"? The WP&Y #73 had 44" drivers, and the EBT Mikados were all 48". As this pic shows, they look 'relatively' small compared with the loco in your video.

White Pass Mikado #73-1.jpg
 
Tac, I'm curious about that info. Are the drivers really scale 52"? The WP&Y #73 had 44" drivers, and the EBT Mikados were all 48". As this pic shows, they look 'relatively' small compared with the loco in your video.

View attachment 304551

Okay, I misremembered, but it WAS thirteen years ago when I last I measured them. Please feel free to sue me. Remember also that the loco in my video is the LGB/Aster model, and not the real thing. ALL the LGB models that used this articulated chassis/module had the same size drivers, including the Aster/LGB or LGB/Aster mike - it never occurred to anybody to make custom drivers for #73, although it can be done, especially here in UK where custom cast drivers or any other wheels are easy to come by. All that stops me from doing are two factors -

1. The expense.

2. The fact that I really can't be assed. Nobody here knows the White Pass line well enough to make a comment.
 
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In my opinion, companies that make beautiful models, often fail to make rugged drivetrains, or even properly geared ones.

So, Aster has little experience with an "everyday" G scale drivetrain, but to be fair, they did not design it.

LGB is mostly to blame in my opinion in not taking the simple steps of weighting down a Mikado and seeing what it did to pulling power, engine current, all the normal things an engineer would check. (It would not have taken long to have the drivetrain self destruct).

Anyway, the upgraded drivetrain and caution does work.

Greg

Greg, I actually produced an analytical examination and assessment of the problem for LGB's development engineers. Wolfgang Richter was upbeat about it, but failed to act on it, leaving it instead to a total rehash of the drive and using a sliding square connector, rather like that found on a a Shay, instead of the pathetic slipping spline drive that almost instantly wore itself smooth - in my cases within 20 and 30 seconds of applying power. I can dig it out if you want to see it.
 
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I would if not too much bother, interesting historical event.

Greg

I'll go look for it after supper - it's with all the other interaction I had with LGB over the fiasco of the public fails. The gentleman who ran the LGB distribution centre in Leighton buzzard at the time not only took the first one off me, in spite of it having been bought from Lorenz Schug [MBV Schug in Detzem, Germany] and then told me to help myself from the pallet of unsold models, but when THAT one came back, took it off me, and personally dumped in in Herr Richter's lap at the Nuremburg toy fair that year. I had written him already, expressing my displeasure and advising him that in spite of the expense, I was prepared to let it stay in my collection as a lost cause shelf queen...you can see his response to me in the letter that came back to me with the loco - free of charge. I'll post it all here for future reference.
 
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H
Okay, I misremembered, but it WAS thirteen years ago when I last I measured them. Please feel free to sue me. Remember also that the loco in my video is the LGB/Aster model, and not the real thing. ALL the LGB models that used this articulated chassis/module had the same size drivers, including the Aster/LGB or LGB/Aster mike - it never occurred to anybody to make custom drivers for #73, although it can be done, especially here in UK where custom cast drivers or any other wheels are easy to come by. All that stops me from doing are two factors -

1. The expense.

2. The fact that I really can't be assed. Nobody here knows the White Pass line well enough to make a comment.
 
Hi
Would very much like to discuss the WP&Y 2-8-2 model with you, I am looking at the feasibility of replacing the drivers and am looking for advice and information
Cheers baldwin47
 
Go ahead and ax. Where are you at?
Hi
I’ve studied the WP for over 40 years, made many models, kit and scratch built and have a small library of books and memorabilia from the line.
But, all modelling was in hon3, none in the larger scales.

Came across an Lgb aster 2-8-2 at a reasonable price although with probably a few performance issues, but decided early on to put on display only.
I was already aware of many of the issues/problems associated with this model, but decided to explore what would be possible, and also not possible, when thinking about creating a better scale replica.
Having said that the aster company has done an exceptionally fine job given the decision to use oversized drivers and a dubious drivetrain.
So that’s where the effort would go, making scale drivers fit and look good in an oversized frame. Or a completely new frame.
I’m sure you know that this is far from straightforward and that’s why I’m thrashing around looking for ideas and solutions!
I was really interested in your posts on the locomotive and would really welcome any suggestions you may have after your extensive experience with the type.
 
Hi
I’ve studied the WP for over 40 years, made many models, kit and scratch built and have a small library of books and memorabilia from the line.
But, all modelling was in hon3, none in the larger scales.

Came across an Lgb aster 2-8-2 at a reasonable price although with probably a few performance issues, but decided early on to put on display only.
I was already aware of many of the issues/problems associated with this model, but decided to explore what would be possible, and also not possible, when thinking about creating a better scale replica.
Having said that the aster company has done an exceptionally fine job given the decision to use oversized drivers and a dubious drivetrain.
So that’s where the effort would go, making scale drivers fit and look good in an oversized frame. Or a completely new frame.
I’m sure you know that this is far from straightforward and that’s why I’m thrashing around looking for ideas and solutions!
I was really interested in your posts on the locomotive and would really welcome any suggestions you may have after your extensive experience with the type.

If Aster had been given free reign with the running gear, then it would

a. have doubled the already high price.

b. have meant that only those lucky folks with really W I D E curves could run it.

But it would have been done properly.

As it was, LGB already had a proven eight-driver system in long-term production for their 1/26 and bit scale Mikes, including the French 141R and Santa Fe light mike.

Sadly, while it was fine being clad in a plastic superstructure, it was not up to lugging around an eight pound lump of finest Japanese metal.

The rest, we know.

As it is, you are limited to replacing the oversize drivers with those of a the correct scale diameter for the linear scale of the model. Not difficult, TBH. The actual diameter is 44". In 1/22.5 scale, this measures 1.95 across the treads.

All you have to do now is to find a manufacturer of wheels of the appropriate diameter, that also have positions for the cranks and weights. I'll ask around my pals in G1MRA, but one thing is certain - it will not be cheap, unless you can use a lathe, that is.
 
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Drivers would have to be correct space apart and the ride height also adjusted, which would probably mean the cylinders being very slightly lower, so new frame might be needed? 3D printed or brass?
What do you think?
 
If Aster had been given free reign with the running gear, then it would

a. have doubled the already high price.

b. have meant that only those lucky folks with really W I D E curves could run it.

But it would have been done properly.

As it was, LGB already had a proven eight-driver system in long-term production for their 1/26 and bit scale Mikes, including the French 141R and Santa Fe light mike.

Sadly, while it was fine being clad in a plastic superstructure, it was not up to lugging around an eight pound lump of finest Japanese metal.

The rest, we know.

As it is, you are limited to replacing the oversize drivers with those of a the correct scale diameter for the linear scale of the model. Not difficult, TBH. The actual diameter is 44". In 1/22.5 scale, this measures 1.95 across the treads.

All you have to do now is to find a manufacturer of wheels of the appropriate diameter, that also have positions for the cranks and weights. I'll ask around my pals in G1MRA, but one thing is certain - it will not be cheap, unless you can use a lathe, that is.
Hi, thanks for replying. Would fabricating a new frame be the best solution to:
a ; maintain locomotive ride height and b; allow correct wheel spacing without too large a gap between , when using smaller diameter wheels?
 
Drivers would have to be correct space apart and the ride height also adjusted, which would probably mean the cylinders being very slightly lower, so new frame might be needed? 3D printed or brass?
What do you think?

The wheel centres remain the same, because they are going to go on the same axles, right? So there would be no need to futz around with the position of the cylinders. You seem intent in spending a great deal of money here - the wheels alone, if machined, are likely around £250 or more. Who is going to do all this work?
 
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