Approval Granted - Planning Begins

[curtis]

Nikki (my fiancee) and I currently live in Berlin and it has always been our intention to return (me) / move (Nikki) to the UK. Well, given covid, we decided to expedite that plan to happen in the next 6months (we both have 3month work notice periods). Enough with the back story, now on the garden railway topic.

Nikki is a big supporter of the garden railway interest (supporter more than active engager) so as part of the move we agreed to invest here in the track for our future garden railway and ship it over as part of the move. This means planning can begin.

I've been able to get some rough measurements along with photos of where we will be moving.

I did an initial track plan using rail modeller which after I finished realised may be quite intense (however, wasn't veto'ed by Nikki). Not married to this but wanted a starting point

A few notes:

The garden:

• Seat pod in the top right for Nikki to sit and read
• In the middle of the orange loop will be grass
• Outline of outdoor chair and tables on a patio area
• Layout will be raised 30-60cm / 1-2ft in raised flowerbeds

The layout

• One flat continuous loop (orange)
• One climbing continuous loop (blue). The area on the left is raised with the right would be at the same level as the orange loop.
• One terminal station
• Run a track directly into the garage / workshop
• All points are LGB / Train-Li R3 aside from the indoor storage tracks
• Most of the curves are LGB R3. I snuck Piko R3 (sit just outside LGB R2) in one place.

General thoughts

• Layout will be digital
• I'll probably keep to shorter trains (AT, DE, CH narrow gauge).
• Most of the passing tracks can contain x3 LGB HSB passenger wagons + loco.

Given the collective wisdom and learnings of the folks on this forum - I'd really appreciate your input.

 

[dunnyrail]

Nikki (my fiancee) and I currently live in Berlin and it has always been our intention to return (me) / move (Nikki) to the UK. Well, given covid, we decided to expedite that plan to happen in the next 6months (we both have 3month work notice periods). Enough with the back story, now on the garden railway topic.

Nikki is a big supporter of the garden railway interest (supporter more than active engager) so as part of the move we agreed to invest here in the track for our future garden railway and ship it over as part of the move. This means planning can begin.

I've been able to get some rough measurements along with photos of where we will be moving.

I did an initial track plan using rail modeller which after I finished realised may be quite intense (however, wasn't veto'ed by Nikki). Not married to this but wanted a starting point

A few notes:

The garden:

• Seat pod in the top right for Nikki to sit and read
• In the middle of the orange loop will be grass
• Outline of outdoor chair and tables on a patio area
• Layout will be raised 30-60cm / 1-2ft in raised flowerbeds

The layout

• One flat continuous loop (orange)
• One climbing continuous loop (blue). The area on the left is raised with the right would be at the same level as the orange loop.
• One terminal station
• Run a track directly into the garage / workshop
• All points are LGB / Train-Li R3 aside from the indoor storage tracks
• Most of the curves are LGB R3. I snuck Piko R3 (sit just outside LGB R2) in one place.

General thoughts

• Layout will be digital
• I'll probably keep to shorter trains (AT, DE, CH narrow gauge).
• Most of the passing tracks can contain x3 LGB HSB passenger wagons + loco.

Given the collective wisdom and learnings of the folks on this forum - I'd really appreciate your input.


View attachment 283155

Well you have got lots of things right not least an access indoors for stock storage.

But the decking, be worthwhile to allow for access traps that can be lifted off for cleaning rails and possible sorting if a derailment occurs, not your track-laying of course but all sorts of carp can get under decking to cause issues. Or am I wrong and it is just a raised area with trains running beneath the chair?

Not quite sure what you are aiming to achieve with the green terminus. Is that an LGB slip at the entry? Rad is R1, though some of the earlier ones I think may have had r2? As for the bottom pink circle, I would have an extension with another point to the left loop with siding and then 2 points for run round. That would be fairly typical European layout.

 

[a98087]

Looks good to me, where about in the uk are you moving to?

Dan

 

[Paul M]

Presumably the different colours are different stages? It's always best to start small and expand, rather than trying to do everything at once. It will also mean you can try out you track laying methods

 

[curtis]

Well you have got lots of things right not least an access indoors for stock storage.

When I suggested a hole in the wall to Nikki, I expected pushback but instead she thought it was a great idea because there was less time setting up. She gets it.

But the decking, be worthwhile to allow for access traps that can be lifted off for cleaning rails and possible sorting if a derailment occurs, not your track-laying of course but all sorts of carp can get under decking to cause issues. Or am I wrong and it is just a raised area with trains running beneath the chair?

In agreement. I'm not yet sure how we're doing that decking/raised area - probably work out those details when we are there but tunnel access is critical.
And to be fair, it has been 20 years since I had a railway outdoors (cobuilt with my Grandad) so there is a fair chance of track laying issues so there will be a lot to (re)learn

Not quite sure what you are aiming to achieve with the green terminus. Is that an LGB slip at the entry? Rad is R1, though some of the earlier ones I think may have had r2?

This was partly inspired by how ge_rik has where to run trains to for operational interest and given that's where the track leading from the garage is I felt it made sense to make use of it.

Good catch, yes, it is. This mockup has been in the works for a few weeks. Recently, there was a thread discussing them and there was a less than lukewarm response so thinking about removing that. As a kid I always wanted a double-slip (purely, I admit) because they seemed to look cool) but given that will be a critical point I'd rather have reliability

As for the bottom pink circle, I would have an extension with another point to the left loop with siding and then 2 points for run round. That would be fairly typical European layout.

Not sure I follow here. The circle at the bottom left would be a Heyns turntable (wasn't in the software but created a representation of it). Are you suggestion to add points for a runaround before the turntable?

Looks good to me, where about in the uk are you moving to?

Dan

If all goes to plan, it'll actually be Jersey (Channel Islands)

Presumably the different colours are different stages? It's always best to start small and expand, rather than trying to do everything at once. It will also mean you can try out you track laying methods

They were more to indicator to myself the different areas (two loops and a terminus). I agree on splitting it to stages but Nikki tends to like things done. (She asked if we could finish it in a couple of weeks which I set expectations around the usual pace of British infrastructure projects). I was thinking of laying the basic infrastructure for the blue loop (tunnels, retaining walls etc) but leaving this as flower bed until we evaluate the success of the orange loop. Similarly with the green terminus could start as a basic run around.

 

[dunnyrail]

Green Station.
Ah now understand the Turntable, yes they can be a bit of an issue outside requiring quite a bit of cleaning up and possible power problems. But would make a great addition if you can overcome those issues. As for the slip, if you are weeded to one GRS gave done them with a tame scratch builder, not cheep but neither is the LGB one. Perhaps you could start this area if it is in the early stages with just a little less using points to see how you get on with it. Can always be expanded later. Just make sure you allow enough area for the trackbed.

 

[curtis]

Green Station.
Ah now understand the Turntable, yes they can be a bit of an issue outside requiring quite a bit of cleaning up and possible power problems. But would make a great addition if you can overcome those issues. As for the slip, if you are weeded to one GRS gave done them with a tame scratch builder, not cheep but neither is the LGB one. Perhaps you could start this area if it is in the early stages with just a little less using points to see how you get on with it. Can always be expanded later. Just make sure you allow enough area for the trackbed.

I did a little reading on these as I was worried about the same. Heyns seems to suggest keeping them covered so I'm sure my grandfather and I could fix something together. They also provide some MD electronics (my DCC provider) equipment to simplify control / power routing which puts me at ease. It's one of those things where I accept there is going to be more complexity with it but love the idea so willing to give it more slack (note: probably should challenge me on this post in 2-3 years and see if my position is the same )

I'll checkout GRS for the slip. Not completely wedded to it but it does save some space. Unlike the turntable, give it is at a critical junction I'd err on reliability over style. One thing I'm trying my best to do is not purely indulge the 9year that spent hours flicking through the LGB catalogues and Die Welt Der LGB (some indulgence is allowed, however)

I think your suggesting is good. Probably worth starting easy and working up (also gives ongoing projects) which is honestly the bits I tend to enjoy more.

 

[curtis]

dunnyrail , I actually would love your perspective on something.

I know on the DunnyBahn you have a loop back and above itself (screenshot below. I'm wondering, what your climb and curvature is here and what your clearance is? I found in an old LGB book they show 232mm from based of the sleeper to the max of overhead cable (for electric lines - mine won't be).

I was considering in a different plan an R3 helix but when I mocked it up it seemed to be around a 4.9% climb (0 - 30cm climb) which from all my reading on this forum is a bit risky as a gradient on a curve. I assumed 30cm to count for the the bridge between the upper rail and clearance on the bottom. I know it depends on the locos, length of trains but would appreciate your reflections.

 

[dunnyrail]

dunnyrail , I actually would love your perspective on something.

I know on the DunnyBahn you have a loop back and above itself (screenshot below. I'm wondering, what your climb and curvature is here and what your clearance is? I found in an old LGB book they show 232mm from based of the sleeper to the max of overhead cable (for electric lines - mine won't be).

I was considering in a different plan an R3 helix but when I mocked it up it seemed to be around a 4.9% climb (0 - 30cm climb) which from all my reading on this forum is a bit risky as a gradient on a curve. I assumed 30cm to count for the the bridge between the upper rail and clearance on the bottom. I know it depends on the locos, length of trains but would appreciate your reflections.

View attachment 283238View attachment 283239

Ok so I have used Aristocraft 4ft Rad Curves which I believe are the same as LGB R3, indeed that is what I have used on other parts of the line where I have tried to keep to a 4ft minimum (failed in some areas).

The drawing below shows one of my loops that gets me to 9 inches clearance to a TrainLine 45 Bridge, as this is solid metal there is nothing below it. The other loop requires more space as the station is made from decking with supports so needed more of a run for the higher clearance.

Thus below a-b is a 1/4 circle using R3 curves. b-c is a viaduct 3ft, c-d is a R3 1/2 circle, d-e is straight around 2ft, e-f again mostly r3 but with some slightly less to get to the peco point from f-g is a peco point and 2xYards to get to the 9” difference for the bridge. Gradient started at 1:40 but a misbuild gave a short stretch of 1:35 between e-f that really stretches the puffers.

 

[Gizzy]

I have a Hyen Turntable which I have struggled to set up, as my German isn't very good.

I keep mine indoors when not running.

As for the LGB Double Slip, I found mine caused derailments, so I replaced it with a diamond.

I hope to see your layout running once you get to the UK....

 

[curtis]

We moved a couple of weeks ago so I had time to measure the garden properly. It seems my previous estimations were slightly under (screenshot below. After remeasuring and outlining this in RailModeller - I overplayed the old design and found I have a little more space to the left (approx 2m) so going to explore the layout options a little more.

 

[Gavin Sowry]

Couple of thousand quid worth of track there, I reckon.........

 

[PhilP]

Couple of thousand quid worth of track there, I reckon.........

Shhhhh!

 

[phils2um]

Hi Curtis,

I like your plans. My only suggestion, especially since you've found a little more space, is to lengthen your passing sidings a bit. They appear to be the ultimate limit on your train length. It is very difficult to lengthen them later should you wish to. I've got one passing siding on my RR that is shorter than I'd like even though it looked OK when I put it in. I wish I'd made it one LGB 10600 (60cm) longer after running a while. I can't fix it now without major rework that I'm not willing to do.

Edit added: One other suggestion - It appears your plan is likely based on sectional track. I recommend you go with flex track wherever possible even if you need to cut it to fit. You will not regret it! You'll be able to buy a rail bender for what you save on rail clamps! Plus, it'll lessen future issues with your intended track power.

 

[phils2um]

OK, just one more comment! You've got a wye that I've circled below. I assume either leg "A" or leg "B" will be isolated and controlled by a reverse loop module. Be sure the leg is long enough to hold your longest train!



Upon further thought another option is to isolate the green zone from the yellow somewhere on both the "A" and "B" legs and power the entire green zone through a reverse loop module. This option pretty much eliminates train length issues. I'd recommend putting the insulated joiners in both "A" and "B" legs close to the double slip in this case.

 

[Andreas]

Hi,
A little tip from someone who is also a beginner. I had to remove the double crossover switch. I often had derailments here. They look great, but were not reliable. I have realised the route in one direction with two R3 points and have dispensed with the other direction (necessary for reasons of space).

 

[dunnyrail]

Hi,
A little tip from someone who is also a beginner. I had to remove the double crossover switch. I often had derailments here. They look great, but were not reliable. I have realised the route in one direction with two R3 points and have dispensed with the other direction (necessary for reasons of space).

He is right, the LGB double slip is best reserved for use as part of a Terminal Station where space may be at a premium and speeds low.

 

[curtis]

Wow, this thread picked up a lot - once again, appreciate all the comments and advice.

In terms of track - Nikki and I made a reasonable sized order here in Germany a while before we moved so we would have enough for the above plan plus a bit more. As part of the early return to the UK, we agreed to a small investment in track

The plan in the latest screenshot was more as a comparison point of size and I'm going to review the track plan because the right side feels very tight so going to explore what else we can do. It's also much easier now that we are in Jersey to laid things out and see how it actually looks.

The overarching wisdom is very clearly not to us double slips at critical points (regardless of how cool I think they look). I'd rather have fun running (or leaving them to run) than babysitting derailments so that will absolutely factor into the plan. I'm on vacation next week so hopefully can get some time to play around with some sketches!

Very much noted on the passing sidings. I specced for x3 HSB carriages but you're right, once the garden is designed around that it will be hard to changed the collection will continue to grow. Will factor that in. 65 1057 has wonderfully long passing sidings (I think we fit two trains in one at a certain point) which made for a lot of fun and flexibility.

Regarding the Wye, yes, was going to use a reversing module but hadn't considered it for the whole zone I like the idea. The only risk would be if two trains entered the zone from two different sides, right?

 

[dunnyrail]

Wow, this thread picked up a lot - once again, appreciate all the comments and advice.

In terms of track - Nikki and I made a reasonable sized order here in Germany a while before we moved so we would have enough for the above plan plus a bit more. As part of the early return to the UK, we agreed to a small investment in track

The plan in the latest screenshot was more as a comparison point of size and I'm going to review the track plan because the right side feels very tight so going to explore what else we can do. It's also much easier now that we are in Jersey to laid things out and see how it actually looks.

The overarching wisdom is very clearly not to us double slips at critical points (regardless of how cool I think they look). I'd rather have fun running (or leaving them to run) than babysitting derailments so that will absolutely factor into the plan. I'm on vacation next week so hopefully can get some time to play around with some sketches!

Very much noted on the passing sidings. I specced for x3 HSB carriages but you're right, once the garden is designed around that it will be hard to changed the collection will continue to grow. Will factor that in. 65 1057 has wonderfully long passing sidings (I think we fit two trains in one at a certain point) which made for a lot of fun and flexibility.

Regarding the Wye, yes, was going to use a reversing module but hadn't considered it for the whole zone I like the idea. The only risk would be if two trains entered the zone from two different sides, right?

Yes 2 trains can be an issue, we used to get away with it sometimes on the Ruschbahn but it certainly was not good practice to try it as it could ‘kill‘ the complete railway. Effectively by kill I mean short out the line and as that was such a big railway it was not always the easiest thing to find out which of potentially as many as 6 operators had shorted out the railway. I think you will find if a short train is in one of the legs and another say longer train passes through a different leg there will be no issues, the problem comes where two trains are trying to ‘short’ the revercing unit at the same time. It kind of runs home to mummy and says “oh dear which way shall I alter the track feeds”?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

So I am a start from the beginning guy, and I read the thread from start to finish.

There's several items that need some reasoning put to them before they are decided.

Starting out, minimum radius and maximum grade.

To be successful, and be happy with your work a few years later, it's always best to identify the FUTURE of the layout.

When complete (say 5 years), what are the lengths and composition of the rolling stock? (longest cars, number of cars in a train)
Get even more specific on the locomotives you WANT to have.

With the room you have, you should (in my opinion) have NO R1 curves nor switches anywhere. The first thing that glares at me is your mostly underground R1 loop (since no scale was given to the grid, if I missed it let me know).

Setting your expectations will avoid no-fixable problems in the future.

Greg