A very basic question

[craigrailinc]

I am just getting round to wiring up point motors standard LGB 12010 to a momentary box 51750. Do i need to run a cable from each motor to the box or can they be linked from one motor to the next?
Figuring its to each motor, but they are 80 feet away from box, 60 feet, 50 and 40 feet away could be a lot of cable.

 

[whizzo]

Hi i have just been doing this very job twin flex 5amp from each of the switch terminal 51750 white and orange to each epl ,you can link 2 epl together// but on the distance you say, try a mock up first regards Dave

 

[Neil Robinson]

I'm pretty certain that the LGB box is internally wired up like this.

If so find the common wire and save a bit of wiring by linking one side of each point motor to the next and running but one common wire to the nearest point motor.

 

[minimans]

You can use the rail for the common wire return, it saves on half the wire and it's easy to do! may I suggest a read through the LGB EPL Guide?.................................

 

[Gizzy]

When I originally wired up mine, I used some 4 core CCTV cable that Bigjack gave me. I was able to run this to 2 sets of 2 motors over a distance of 100 ft, with no problems. Some of the cabling was run under a footpath (made from 3'x2' concrete slabs) and the rest hidden in the track ballast.

The points were operated with Gaugemaster GM511 switches http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GM511&style=main&strType=g
on a mimic panel and powered from an LGB AC transformer.

(I've since gone MTS and I now have a 4 output point decoder operating 8 motors on crossovers, with a lot less wiring, switching the points instead.)

To answer your question you can either run a power cable to the LGB 51750 and use it closer to your points, or you can run long lengths of flex from an 'operator's cabin', which can be expensive and untidy. Neil R's suggestion of common return is a great idea, if you can find some cable with at least 5 cores, or you can use 8 core instead.

You can 'gang' LGB 51750 units together if required, using a common AC supply....

 

[UKSGR]

I'm doing the same here. What size transformer do you need? The starter set 1 turns the point motors very slowly

 

[minimans]

To ensure a good positive thunk on the points I use a 24V 5amp AC transformer with a good solid core wire to the point motors and a common return through the rails (the rail is a really BIG solid wire!) when I had points more than 50ft away from the shed I used a LGB EPL booster and never had a missed shift!

 

[craigrailinc]

Re:A very basic question and a bit more.................

Firstly a very big thank you for all the suggestions which got me thinking...................
I would like to open the points into the station circuit with a point motor powered by a momentary control box 51570. easy!
but i run two trains on the same track and I would like to leap frog one in front of the other but I can't see the station circuit from the control centre (shed).
I would like the train thats entered the station circuit to close the point behind it by using a track contact 17100 connected to the same point motor as the momentary box. Can this be done???
To allow me to open the point but the train to close the point and allow the train behind to carry straight on.

 

[korm kormsen]

Re:A very basic question and a bit more.................

yes, it can be done.
you need one turnoutmotor, one add-on switch for the motor, one or two reed contacts (17100) and a momentary box, if you use just one 17100. and a magnet for each loco used. (and two turnouts of course)
the siding must be isolated from the mainline.
the add-on switch is on the entering turnout. it gets current from the mainline as input, and current to the siding or nothing as output.
in the siding (a trains length from the entering turnout) is one 17100.
on contact it sets the entering turnout to the mainline and cuts off the current to the siding.
the other 17100 you put anywhere in the loop, where it pleases you. that one sets the entering turnout to the siding and allows the current to flow into the siding. (this second 17100 can be replaced by the momentary switch)
using two 17100s, the trains will leapfrog every round.
using the momentary switch, one train stays in the siding, till you press the switch.

ah, the leaving turnoutwill be cut open by the trains. if you want it to be switched it needs an electric motor too (that would be wired in paralell with the entering turnout)

 

[dumpy]

Re:A very basic question and a bit more.................

I would like the train thats entered the station circuit to close the point behind it by using a track contact 17100 connected to the same point motor as the momentary box. Can this be done???
To allow me to open the point but the train to close the point and allow the train behind to carry straight on.

If you look down this forum to "more on signals operated by points" you can see my circuit for doing this. This is fully automated in that one train stops and sets the other off but by incorporating a switch you can keep one section live until you want another train to set off the first. I included the trailing point in the circuit as I found some bogies on the train didn't push the point open satisfactorily but you can cut it out if you wish.

 

[craigrailinc]

Re:A very basic question and a bit more.................

HI Thanks for this. Now I know I can set up isolated section in the siding for the train to stop.
the problem I still have is that having opened the turnout into the siding with my point motor wired to my momentary box, I know I can close it once the train is in the siding via the momentary box BUT I cant see when that happens and I dont want the other train to follow it in.
I need a means of closing the point (I opened with the momentary box) after the first train has cleared it and before the second train goes over the turnout??????8|


yes, it can be done.
you need one turnoutmotor, one add-on switch for the motor, one or two reed contacts (17100) and a momentary box, if you use just one 17100. and a magnet for each loco used. (and two turnouts of course)
the siding must be isolated from the mainline.
the add-on switch is on the entering turnout. it gets current from the mainline as input, and current to the siding or nothing as output.
in the siding (a trains length from the entering turnout) is one 17100.
on contact it sets the entering turnout to the mainline and cuts off the current to the siding.
the other 17100 you put anywhere in the loop, where it pleases you. that one sets the entering turnout to the siding and allows the current to flow into the siding. (this second 17100 can be replaced by the momentary switch)
using two 17100s, the trains will leapfrog every round.
using the momentary switch, one train stays in the siding, till you press the switch.

ah, the leaving turnoutwill be cut open by the trains. if you want it to be switched it needs an electric motor too (that would be wired in paralell with the entering turnout)
[/quote]

 

[dumpy]

Re:A very basic question and a bit more.................

HI Thanks for this. Now I know I can set up isolated section in the siding for the train to stop.
the problem I still have is that having opened the turnout into the siding with my point motor wired to my momentary box, I know I can close it once the train is in the siding via the momentary box BUT I cant see when that happens and I dont want the other train to follow it in.
I need a means of closing the point (I opened with the momentary box) after the first train has cleared it and before the second train goes over the turnout??????8|


I don't know how long you siding is to be or the length of train going into it, but can you fit in a reed switch in the track before the isolated section and have the whole train in the siding. With a magnet under the engine it will close the point behind it before it stops in the dead section.

 

[craigrailinc]

Re:A very basic question and a bit more.................

main problem I seam to have is that the point into the siding is wired to a momentary box and I dont know how to wire a read switch to move that point back (because the point motor is powered by the momentary box.
So i need to be able to wire a read switch to the same point motor????????
Yes plenty of space to get train into siding, was going to put magnet under cabbose so once its over the read switch the point would change.
I can wire a point motor to a momentary box and wire a read switch to a point motor. but is there a way of wiring both to one point motor??????????
idea being once train is in siding it will go to isolated section and stop which is controlled by the point at the exit of siding.

HI Thanks for this. Now I know I can set up isolated section in the siding for the train to stop.
the problem I still have is that having opened the turnout into the siding with my point motor wired to my momentary box, I know I can close it once the train is in the siding via the momentary box BUT I cant see when that happens and I dont want the other train to follow it in.
I need a means of closing the point (I opened with the momentary box) after the first train has cleared it and before the second train goes over the turnout??????8|


I don't know how long you siding is to be or the length of train going into it, but can you fit in a reed switch in the track before the isolated section and have the whole train in the siding. With a magnet under the engine it will close the point behind it before it stops in the dead section.

 

[korm kormsen]

Re:A very basic question and a bit more.................

craigailinc,

go on this site: http://kormsen.info/

scroll down, on the left side the last link is to the LGB manual.
if you go to "Taking Control" there you get a good overview about the way, how to operate sidings with the EPL system from LGB. what you find there, is the same, what i explained - but with plans for better understanding.

 

[Neil Robinson]

Re:A very basic question and a bit more.................

I can wire a point motor to a momentary box and wire a read switch to a point motor. but is there a way of wiring both to one point motor??????????

No problem. Most of the time the switches are open circuit, just wire an LGB reed in parallel ensuring the internal diode selected sends the point the way you wish.

 

[craigrailinc]

Re:A very basic question and a bit more.................

OK clearly not getting this as I was using the EPL manual ( oh dear feeling a bit thick)
Can I wire the same point motor which is opened by me and the momentary box, to be closed by a read switch??
as my white and orange inputs(on the switch motor) are used to the momentary box and to wire the read switch the middle connection goes to 3 and the 4 goes to the point motor. do I run another wire from 3 and 4 to the read switch and point motor which will by pass the momentary box? or does it BANG!

craigailinc,

go on this site: http://kormsen.info/

scroll down, on the left side the last link is to the LGB manual.
if you go to "Taking Control" there you get a good overview about the way, how to operate sidings with the EPL system from LGB. what you find there, is the same, what i explained - but with plans for better understanding.

 

[korm kormsen]

Re:A very basic question and a bit more.................

Can I wire the same point motor which is opened by me and the momentary box, to be closed by a read switch??
yes.
if you use the lgb colours, the white from the transformer goes to the turnoutmotor. the black goes to your box AND to the reedswitch.
an orange goes from both the box and the reed to the turnout motor.
the only "complicated" thing is, that you chose the right output connections on the box and on the reed. (one output of the reed will always close, the other will always open the siding)
there arte different boxes. some have just one orange output, others have two.
if there is one - use it. if there are two - you must try out, where to connect.

 

[korm kormsen]

Re:A very basic question and a bit more.................

i combined two pics from the manual.
this is, what you need:

http://kormsen.info/steering/bilder/passing01.JPG

 

[craigrailinc]

Re:A very basic question and a bit more.................

FAntasic working away as I wonted it to GREAT many thanks.

 

[craigrailinc]

Re:A very basic question and a bit more.................


OK one step forward several back the way.
from the diagram above I managed to wire two sidings like this. GREAT
BUT i started work on the other side of the garden where I have 3 sidings to wire up same idea got the points in and working, started working on the track contacts (17100) wired up the one furthest away working! GREAT came to the next one same principal BUT huge heat overload and melted the casing tried a new out the bag track contact not working either, thought to myself get one from the other side that was working, that didnt work either. So went to put that one back (the one that had worked) in its old position and its not working the point motor wont click over but just vibrates. back and forward any ideas been over my wiring several times..
is it possible to fry these contacts???
any ideas why the one that was working now just gets the point motor vibrating?
do they over heat or not work in warm weather?
Brian