3D Scratch Building

[Northsider]

We are in a transitional stage between craft knife/cutting mat, and 3D printer/laser cutter. As these technologies bed in and those who practise the more traditional skills, erm, 'move on', then scratch building may encompass the new -there are signs in the range of opinion here that this is already happening. For some, scratch building will always mean making by hand entirely from scratch (with the wheel/motor conundrum rumbling on...), while others will be relaxed about using newer technologies. As I have posted elsewhere, it has taken me several years to describe my self-produced laser cut 'kits' (for my own use, not commercially) as scratchbuilt. I leave it to others to decide what they are: I'm just happy running trains of stock that is either not commercially available, or which I have chosen to make myself.

I offered to run off a set of laser parts for an IOM saloon for someone who had asked if I had any drawings; they declined the offer, just wanted the drawings and subsequently made a beautiful job of creating one from styrene. Hats off to them: I'm not sure I would have the skills or the patience.

To sum up: the best time to ask this question will probably be in ten/twenty/fifty years' time: we'll have a much better perspective on it by then!

 

[David1226]

There is another factor involved in laser cutting/3D printing which no one seems to have touched on so far, cost. I would dearly love to turn out some small 3D printed accessories for my railway. but I am reaching the end of my modelling life (I have already exceeded my allotted three score and ten), my modelling wants/needs are meagre compared to a younger person with potentially many years of modelling ahead of them. I just cannot justify the expense of a 3D printer that would potentially get very little use.

David

 

[Paul M]

To sum up: the best time to ask this question will probably be in ten/twenty/fifty years' time: we'll have a much better perspective on it by then!

Ah, but by then new technology will have taken over, so this conversation could actually never end!

 

[3 minutes of fame]

There is another factor involved in laser cutting/3D printing which no one seems to have touched on so far, cost. I would dearly love to turn out some small 3D printed accessories for my railway. but I am reaching the end of my modelling life (I have already exceeded my allotted three score and ten), my modelling wants/needs are meagre compared to a younger person with potentially many years of modelling ahead of them. I just cannot justify the expense of a 3D printer that would potentially get very little use.

David

This is a very good point. There's no doubt that any of this technology will set you back a bit. A printer is £150 - £1500, plus any software, filament etc - and you may need the CAD software as well if you plan to make your own designs. It is a learning curve, much like hand cutting, and quite honestly for very low volumes, it's probably no quicker with everything factored in.

 

[Djjerme]

I'm guessing the people flaming 3D printing have never actually done it, because it's very rarely "push a button and go." Its more like setting up a lathe; you spend a lot of time dialing in the print, then analyzing what went wrong and then a lot of finishing work. And more finishing work.

I see the same thing in the car world: built vs bought:

So you bought a GT350 and put new rims on it. That's pretty equivalent to buying RTR and running it as is with a little weathering.

But then what if I pull the motor and change the cam, is it built now? Or is built only when I've stripped it down to the frame rails, done a complete bare metal respray and completely new interior? Or is there an inbetween. What about if you have a machine shop prep the block, but you assemble it?

..or is better to just be happy there is a lot of people who enjoy cars (trains) as much we do instead of getting in a p*ssing match about how much better skilled someone is at building it.

Not everyone is a retired engineer with no kids at home and all the time/space in the world to assemble a car or build a loco out of a box of kindling. Some have jobs/family/other hobbies/duties..etc.

I barely have the time to get my 3D printers setup and running any more so if I have to borrow designs from Thingaverse and upscale them for a project, I'm going to go that route vs. designing from scratch. But even then, it's not press a button and go.

And even then, how is that different than someone buying a cast metal stanchion or turned brass bit?

At some point, some people have to get over themselves and be happy other people enjoy their hobby along with them.

 

[ge_rik]

So is this coach I created on my laser cutter and 3d printed scratch built? I designed the cut and 3d print files myself, operated and set up the machines, assembled and painted it. I can certainly say it's all my own work, as I started with raw materials, but I short circuited the process by automating the production of the parts, that's all.

Answers on a postcard...

View attachment 294761

Similarly, this Cleminson 6 wheeled Southwold Railway coach was entirely drawn and 3D printed in sections by me. This is somewhere around version 12. I needed to go back to the drawing board several times to get the 6 wheeled chassis to work successfully.

I could have constructed it from plasticard and it probably would have taken about the same amount of actual construction time. The advantage of 3D printing is that now I've drawn, developed and finalised the original design, I can now print off multiple copies.

I'd say the first one was certainly scratch built, but can I say the same for subsequent 'copies'?



Rik

 

[David1226]

Is this the ultimate scratch building. Scanned from the Daily Telegraph Saturday 29 January 2022





David

 

[DafyddElvy]

I am truly amazed at how one question can cause a stir, a heated debated, be brought down to people jotting in the way I first hoped my question would get replies and go off on such a tangent that we potentially start talking about origami, truly amazing.

 

[JimmyB]

Is this the ultimate scratch building. Scanned from the Daily Telegraph Saturday 29 January 2022

View attachment 294846

View attachment 294847

David

More like crinkle built than scratch built

 

[ge_rik]

More like crinkle built than scratch built

..... or maybe scratch-folded .....


Rik

 

[PhilP]

Well I suppose I would not have problems with 'straight' and 'square', with a single piece of paper..

 

[Northsider]

And if the paper had been laser cut? Would he have still made it from scratch? I think we are getting into the territory of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...

 

[David1226]

And if the paper had been laser cut? Would he have still made it from scratch? I think we are getting into the territory of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...

I posted the item on origami in order to lighten the mood a bit and allow people to move on, given that I still hold very strong views that appear to be at odds with the majority of posters. If I can get over myself and move on, cannot other people. I should point out that in origami, no cuts are allowed, laser or otherwise, the creation being achieved by folds in a single sheet of paper only.

David

 

[Northsider]

I posted the item on origami in order to lighten the mood a bit and allow people to move on, given that I still hold very strong views that appear to be at odds with the majority of posters. If I can get over myself and move on, cannot other people. I should point out that in origami, no cuts are allowed, laser or otherwise, the creation being achieved by folds in a single sheet of paper only.

David

David, I too was hoping to lighten the mood: I am a firm believer in us appreciating the things we each enjoy and value. My intention was neither to hurt nor offend and I apologise if I did so. My post was intended to be puckish humour, but I appreciate this doesn't always come across in the printed word so well as when spoken.