AustrianNG
Director of my railway
LGB/Marklin new stock with Marklin decoder - ?problems?
- Thread starter PhilP
- Start date
<sigh>
I have been thorough this, but can't find the thread..
IF YOU HAVE MASSOTH / NAVIGATOR
To change the short address, then do NOT use the 'change address' function on the Navigator. - It changes (or tries to change) more than just CV1, and fails..
JUST CHANGE THE VALUE IN CV1.
If you need to change speed-step, or analogue support, you must do these separately.
The long address requires you do it long-hand, using the formula. - I can't be bothered to find my worked example on here.. Perhaps it needs a 'sticky' to pin it somewhere?
I have been thorough this, but can't find the thread..
IF YOU HAVE MASSOTH / NAVIGATOR
To change the short address, then do NOT use the 'change address' function on the Navigator. - It changes (or tries to change) more than just CV1, and fails..
JUST CHANGE THE VALUE IN CV1.
If you need to change speed-step, or analogue support, you must do these separately.
The long address requires you do it long-hand, using the formula. - I can't be bothered to find my worked example on here.. Perhaps it needs a 'sticky' to pin it somewhere?
Zerogee
Clencher's Bogleman
Thanks Phil, yes, I recall you HAVE told us this before, but we have short memories and are easily confused....
Thanks for the reminder - and yes, it would probably be a very good idea if this was on a sticky, somewhere in the DCC section - because I'm quite sure that plenty more people are going to have problems with this before we all get used to it!
Jon.
DrLGB
Registered
I just received my preordered 23940 DB Diesel, incorporating the mfx chip, which is my initial experience with mfx. As background I should also note that run all my locos with a Massoth Navigator & 1210Z System, having had prior experience with MTS1 (Lenz), MTS2, MTS3 and Digitrax DCC. I should also mention that I've been working with LGB Locos for 22 years (yes, I'm "old"), installing decoders (LGB, Massoth, etc.), sound (analog & digital) and modifying engines, and am a long time member of the Big Train Operator Club (formerly LGB Club), as well as my local Western new York Garden Railway Society (WNYGRS).
What I noticed, is that when I tried to reprogram the CV1 Loco address to my specific needs, it wouldn't do it!
I found that the Loco Address (CV1), HAD to be programmed individually on a Programming Track, rather than the Main. This is also true for CVs 17, 18 & 29. It is also necessary to "shut off" the mfx option, as the decoder uses a hierarchy of mfx, DCC and Analog protocols (in descending order) on CV50. It probably would be helpful to first set CV50 = 3 (DCC & Analog only), before trying to program the CV1 address.
Yes, the former format (before mfx) on LGB Locos was to set the CV1 to "3" at the factory as a default. Now with mfx, the factory seems to set it to "0", assuming later use of a Marklin C Station.
It seems Marklin is making what appears to be an extraordinary assumption on its long time customers.
Rich
What I noticed, is that when I tried to reprogram the CV1 Loco address to my specific needs, it wouldn't do it!
I found that the Loco Address (CV1), HAD to be programmed individually on a Programming Track, rather than the Main. This is also true for CVs 17, 18 & 29. It is also necessary to "shut off" the mfx option, as the decoder uses a hierarchy of mfx, DCC and Analog protocols (in descending order) on CV50. It probably would be helpful to first set CV50 = 3 (DCC & Analog only), before trying to program the CV1 address.
Yes, the former format (before mfx) on LGB Locos was to set the CV1 to "3" at the factory as a default. Now with mfx, the factory seems to set it to "0", assuming later use of a Marklin C Station.
It seems Marklin is making what appears to be an extraordinary assumption on its long time customers.
Rich
Last edited:
Hello Rich,
Have you been able to set CV 50 to '2'? - I suspect you will get '3' if you read it back??
That has been my experience.
The reason appears to be that '1' is analogue, and you are not able to turn it off?? '2' is DCC, and '8' is MFX. - So 'valid' values for this CV should be 1,2,3,8,9,10, or 11.
My experience has been if I set CV 50 to '2' (DCC only), when read-back, I get '3' from the decoder.
Just wondering if this was a problem with early MFX decoders?
TIA,
Phil P.
Have you been able to set CV 50 to '2'? - I suspect you will get '3' if you read it back??
That has been my experience.
The reason appears to be that '1' is analogue, and you are not able to turn it off?? '2' is DCC, and '8' is MFX. - So 'valid' values for this CV should be 1,2,3,8,9,10, or 11.
My experience has been if I set CV 50 to '2' (DCC only), when read-back, I get '3' from the decoder.
Just wondering if this was a problem with early MFX decoders?
TIA,
Phil P.
ntpntpntp
Registered
Didn't think you could program the basic address of ANY decoder using Program On Main - it has to be done via programming track. Other CVs yes (if the decoder supports POM), but not the basic or extended address as the command station has to send the CV programming instructions to that address.
Hasn't there been some observations about difficulty programing addresses with these MFX decoders and the Massoth Navigator - something about the Navi tries to set other CVs as well as the address, and the MFX decoder doesn't accept that? It's been documented somewhere on this forum (possibly earlier in this thread?)
shropshire lad
Registered
Actually you can program CV1 in Ops mode (POM) with newer DCC systems as they communicate with a decoder via its ID rather than its user given number.
The system can tell decoders apart regardless of their user allocated number which is why you don't need to program a Mfx decoder to use it with Marklin Central System.
It is also why two decoders addressed as '3' move independently on my Zimo system because I call up the loco not its number.
The system can tell decoders apart regardless of their user allocated number which is why you don't need to program a Mfx decoder to use it with Marklin Central System.
It is also why two decoders addressed as '3' move independently on my Zimo system because I call up the loco not its number.
Keith RhB
Registered
Hi guys,
I just wanted to remind those of you using the new MFX sound decoders to check that each sound is set as either momentary or latching on your control system, as appropriate. In the "old" days of Massoth onboard decoders, you never had to check but I first noticed on the 20225 Allegra that some of the sounds weren't responding properly because the decoder wanted a momentary and not a latching trigger. In the case of the Allegra, it was because the train wasn't released to move until the conductor whistle/door slide sound finished playing. If you had it set for latching it never really "finished". With the Massoth Navigator that's easy to set, as you can do it for each individual function, for each locomotive so you only have to do it once. The new MFX decoders also have a playable whistle that goes as long as you hold it, so that you have to change that function too. Overall it took some figuring and tinkering with CV's, but I find these new decoders really excellent low speed performance and the sounds are crisp. Anyway...just thought I'd throw that out there while we're on the topic...
Keith
I just wanted to remind those of you using the new MFX sound decoders to check that each sound is set as either momentary or latching on your control system, as appropriate. In the "old" days of Massoth onboard decoders, you never had to check but I first noticed on the 20225 Allegra that some of the sounds weren't responding properly because the decoder wanted a momentary and not a latching trigger. In the case of the Allegra, it was because the train wasn't released to move until the conductor whistle/door slide sound finished playing. If you had it set for latching it never really "finished". With the Massoth Navigator that's easy to set, as you can do it for each individual function, for each locomotive so you only have to do it once. The new MFX decoders also have a playable whistle that goes as long as you hold it, so that you have to change that function too. Overall it took some figuring and tinkering with CV's, but I find these new decoders really excellent low speed performance and the sounds are crisp. Anyway...just thought I'd throw that out there while we're on the topic...
Keith
DrLGB
Registered
Hi Phil:
You are correct, as I just checked it again. One can try and set CV50 to "2", but it always comes back as "3".
Thanks for pointing this out!
Rich
AustrianNG
Director of my railway
I have programmed the basic address using POM - in locos with a Massoth or LGB (Pre Marklin) decoder. No other locos on the track of course.
I have MTS III with a wireless Massoth Navigator.
Which means you are not able to turn analogue support 'off'..
I wonder how one of these MFX decoder equipped loco's will respond if it has a buffer, and you turn the power off? - Usually turn off analogue support if a buffer is fitted, else the loco can take off like a scalded cat!
DrLGB
Registered
Hi:
We're speaking here of the new Marklin mfx decoder, to which your prior experiences don't seem to apply to. I too have POM Massoth & LGB decoders using a full Massoth System with no problem, but thye mfx seems to be a new "species".
stockers
Trains, aircraft, models, walking, beer, travel
Maybe-soon to be extinct!
Zerogee
Clencher's Bogleman
NCS from Qbyn
Registered
Has anyone actually got a definitive answer as to whether there is a problem programming these mfx decoders using Massoth/LGB programming tools?
I recently purchased a brand new LGB 24741 loco. It has one of these Marklin mfx decoders.
I have an LGB 55045 programming module and Stellwerks Easy software on the PC.
I had no problem changing the loco address and speed steps on a couple of other LGB locos today, but when I came to the 24741, things went all wrong. Firstly, when I read out the existing decoder contents, the values displayed in Stellwerks did not at all match the factory defaults shown in the loco manual. There seemed to be an awful lot of 255 entries.
When I tried to change the address to 22 and save it, back to the decoder, I got a CV error at CV29 when using the LGB programmer and at CV 123 when using the Massoth programmer.
I am not particularly au fait with the intricacies of CV programming - which is why I use the Stellwerks menus. I only change the address of the locos and the speed steps [to 28].
In this case I have a couple of suspicions:
1) Stellwerks cannot read or write to these mfx decoders properly, or
2) I have been sold a brand new loco with a dud decoder!
Before I get stuck into LGB about the second possibility, I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with this issue.
I recently purchased a brand new LGB 24741 loco. It has one of these Marklin mfx decoders.
I have an LGB 55045 programming module and Stellwerks Easy software on the PC.
I had no problem changing the loco address and speed steps on a couple of other LGB locos today, but when I came to the 24741, things went all wrong. Firstly, when I read out the existing decoder contents, the values displayed in Stellwerks did not at all match the factory defaults shown in the loco manual. There seemed to be an awful lot of 255 entries.
When I tried to change the address to 22 and save it, back to the decoder, I got a CV error at CV29 when using the LGB programmer and at CV 123 when using the Massoth programmer.
I am not particularly au fait with the intricacies of CV programming - which is why I use the Stellwerks menus. I only change the address of the locos and the speed steps [to 28].
In this case I have a couple of suspicions:
1) Stellwerks cannot read or write to these mfx decoders properly, or
2) I have been sold a brand new loco with a dud decoder!
Before I get stuck into LGB about the second possibility, I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with this issue.
Have you turned OFF MFX in the decoder?
Do not try to use a 'change address' function.. Write directly to CV1 if you are setting a low address.
Oh, and forget all those CV values and functions you *think* you know.. Being belligerent, Marklin use very different values for those 'common' things we know from LGB and Massoth decoders.
Do not try to use a 'change address' function.. Write directly to CV1 if you are setting a low address.
Oh, and forget all those CV values and functions you *think* you know.. Being belligerent, Marklin use very different values for those 'common' things we know from LGB and Massoth decoders.
NCS from Qbyn
Registered
No I didn't, basically because I am not sure how to. Is this where you change the value in CV 50?
One concern I have is that I am not sure all the defaults are set properly. When I use the 'read' function in Stellwerks Easy to read out all the decoder values, it says CV1 - CV8 inclusive seem to be 255, as is CV 29.
Now this could be because that is what is actually in there, or it could be that Stellwerks is not reading them correctly and is putting dud values into its displays. These are certainly not the default values listed in the loco documentation.
I contacted Stellwerks and they say, in rather broken English, that:
"MFX-decoder don't can be used by a DCC-system like Massoth DiMAX, LGB MTS or Lenz Digital plus. Your Loco must have another DCC-decoder. Therefor also STe-PC can't help. you. For more details you must ask Märklin or Massoth." [sic]
I am not sure that this is actually correct for all those other systems, as I seem to recall someone here saying they were able to program this very same loco with a Lenz. Anyway, I have sent a message to LGB, asking them whether it is possible this loco was sent out from the factory with an incorrectly programmed decoder.
What I really need is some way of reading the decoder, without using Stellwerks, to see if that program was reading it properly. Until I can be sure what is really in the CVs, I don't think it is a good idea to start changing them!! Can you suggest any simple CV reading software that I could use, without having to purchase another major product?
One concern I have is that I am not sure all the defaults are set properly. When I use the 'read' function in Stellwerks Easy to read out all the decoder values, it says CV1 - CV8 inclusive seem to be 255, as is CV 29.
Now this could be because that is what is actually in there, or it could be that Stellwerks is not reading them correctly and is putting dud values into its displays. These are certainly not the default values listed in the loco documentation.
I contacted Stellwerks and they say, in rather broken English, that:
"MFX-decoder don't can be used by a DCC-system like Massoth DiMAX, LGB MTS or Lenz Digital plus. Your Loco must have another DCC-decoder. Therefor also STe-PC can't help. you. For more details you must ask Märklin or Massoth." [sic]
I am not sure that this is actually correct for all those other systems, as I seem to recall someone here saying they were able to program this very same loco with a Lenz. Anyway, I have sent a message to LGB, asking them whether it is possible this loco was sent out from the factory with an incorrectly programmed decoder.
What I really need is some way of reading the decoder, without using Stellwerks, to see if that program was reading it properly. Until I can be sure what is really in the CVs, I don't think it is a good idea to start changing them!! Can you suggest any simple CV reading software that I could use, without having to purchase another major product?
MTheStrong
Registered
Here with a link that you might find useful https://www.champex-linden.de/download_fremddokumente_2015/2015_decoder-ergaenzung.pdf
The first part is in German but the second is in English. I hope this helps.