Wiring up LGB EPL point motors

V

van5

Talyllyn Railway. I of M, Old Land Rovers
24 Jan 2010
175
7
Great Barr, Birmingham
I notice that you have a point motor in pieces. Is there a diagram showing how to assemble one?, I had a substantial collapse on my line which seized the point motor. I took it to pieces but cannot see how to reassemble it
 
James Day

James Day

Guano Corner Rly - Runs weekly - Guano permitting
6 May 2012
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Warwickshire
I notice that you have a point motor in pieces. Is there a diagram showing how to assemble one?, I had a substantial collapse on my line which seized the point motor. I took it to pieces but cannot see how to reassemble it
If you go to LGB.com and search for the drive 12010, you will see a number of options: if you click on the link - order spare parts and the exploded diagram it will show you how it all goes together.

I am away at present and on my phone, so I can't post a link right now.

If you still can't solve it, drop me a PM and I can send you a scan when I get home.

James
 
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dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
15,378
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
I notice that you have a point motor in pieces. Is there a diagram showing how to assemble one?, I had a substantial collapse on my line which seized the point motor. I took it to pieces but cannot see how to reassemble it
Ok I have pulled the all ones that I got apart to clean them up. Put together process:-

Put bottom of Motor with deep bit on Bench with the Wire Entry Screw Holes to the left.
Construct inside Round Parts with Magnet in Middle.
Put 2 side pieces on with the longer bit to the Right onto the Metal Poles.
Put Round assembly into the Metal Poles with the Gear to the Right. Note the small pin needs to be Uppermost this is what stope the Motor using the Side pieces.
Put the assembly into the Bottom with the Gear to the Right.
Put the Cross Gear Train onto the Gear (this is the part that moves the point blade). It should be either one side or the other ALL THE WAY SO THAT THE END TOUCHES THE OUTER CASE. THE LITTLE SPIGOT SHOULD BE THE SAME SIDE.
Put the top on and test with power holding the top on.
If all works OK you can screw the too on finally.

If there is a problem look at the Connection under the wire entry to see that the very smaal wire has not come off. If it has you wilo need to resolder it on.

Also the Contacts where the wires go in can be clened, remove the screws and take outbthe contacts with a pair of Tweevers. Clean up, test that you get a circuit with a Meter and reconstruct. All should be fine now if you got a circuit via the Wire Inputs.

Good luck with the rebuild. I was surprised just how easy it was to get the Motors working again. All 9 of them were faulty in one way or another with many having severly rusted pole pieces, but all work just fine now.
JonD
 
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V

van5

Talyllyn Railway. I of M, Old Land Rovers
24 Jan 2010
175
7
Great Barr, Birmingham
Thank you ,Friends for your help. I did not understand the instruction about the little spigot but the mechanism now works perfectly. Thank you again.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Thank you ,Friends for your help. I did not understand the instruction about the little spigot but the mechanism now works perfectly. Thank you again.
On the end of the Round Gear there is a small piece of plastic, this stops the overun at the place where the point is switched. The cross geared item does this as well, you appear to have fitted things correct as if you get the spigot wrong (underneath the small side pieces) the point will not fully throw. When I saw my first one in bits I thought that the Spigot was a small Moulding Pip and was about to shave it off with a file! But I noticed that it was a perfect shape probably about 2mm square.
JonD
 
JimmyB

JimmyB

Phase 1 complete, roll on Phase 2
23 Feb 2018
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I appreciate this is an old thread, but has answered a number of points (pun intended :)). I use the TE was accessory switch Art 5475 (55475), powered by a 12 v DC supply, and have no issues, however the literature (and this thread) talks about AC half wave form (which I understand), however is my 5475 giving out this AC half wave, or pure DC, and if it is pure DC what are the issues!
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
24,008
673
Tamworth, Staffs.
You will be fine, Jimmy..
The switch-drives do not care if it is half-wave or pure DC.

PhilP.
 
JimmyB

JimmyB

Phase 1 complete, roll on Phase 2
23 Feb 2018
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Phil, many thanks, so if I was to use a switch to throw the EPL my assumption is I would use a DPDT centre off momentary (none-latching) switch, with the four corner "tabs" cross linked.
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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yes, basic rule of thumb is switch motors (sorry point motors) with 2 leads operate by reversing the polarity of the voltage applied. Your description of "cross linked" is a circuit which reverses polarity.

I believe the LGB design was using half wave AC since you can get pulsed DC of opposite polarity easily with just 2 diodes.

Greg
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
yes, basic rule of thumb is switch motors (sorry point motors) with 2 leads operate by reversing the polarity of the voltage applied. Your description of "cross linked" is a circuit which reverses polarity.

I believe the LGB design was using half wave AC since you can get pulsed DC of opposite polarity easily with just 2 diodes.

Greg
Hm not That I wish to use EPL Motors any more but that suggests two push buttons may be used to run an EPL, one way without Diodes the other way with? Apologies for the scrappy drawing but is this what you mean with one switch no diodes the other with the 2?
135068_ca3c1d13c3bdb4d9da0034c14c230b3a.png
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
24,008
673
Tamworth, Staffs.
No Jon,
You 'need' the DC polarity, to tell the motor which way to go..

If you press your left-hand button, you will put AC across the motor, and it will buzz, rather than drive either way rapidly.

The beauty of using AC is that you can common (daisy-chain) one side of the motors, have the diodes and switches at the panel, and just one 'operating' wire to each point.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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616
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St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
No Jon,
You 'need' the DC polarity, to tell the motor which way to go..

If you press your left-hand button, you will put AC across the motor, and it will buzz, rather than drive either way rapidly.

The beauty of using AC is that you can common (daisy-chain) one side of the motors, have the diodes and switches at the panel, and just one 'operating' wire to each point.
eeek!!!

one diode per switch, reversed from each other....

Greg
I was trying to pull out from someone the correct wiring diagram for such an instalation, clearly mine is wrong as I expected it to be.
 
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Take one of your diodes, and put it on the other wire, and reverse it.

This way one pushbutton gives negative pulses, and the other positive pulses

The LGB point motor is a small DC motor, and like other motors, the direction it turns is dependent on the voltage polarity.

So you are splitting up your AC into positive pulses and negative pulses via the diodes... the pulses will be enough to move the motor, even though it would "prefer" solid DC not pulsed DC.

Greg
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
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Blub blub blub blub. So no alternative diagram then.
 
korm kormsen

korm kormsen

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dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
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616
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Greg Elmassian

Greg Elmassian

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Any time, I would conjecture that the 2 single pole switches were much less expensive than a double pole double throw center off switch.

The 2 sets of SPST contacts can be made very cheaply, the DPDT is more expensive to manufacture. Maybe this combined with having 2 separate switches that were more flexible in application was the idea.

Anyway, using the diodes and starting with AC provides a simple, inexpensive solution, one switch sends positive pulses, and the other negative pulses, thus causing direction change. Also, perhaps the pulsed power gave more bang for the buck as opposed to a lower, constant DC, or heating was less.

All this brought to you by the company that invalidated loco warranties if you used pulsed power at one time.

Greg
 
korm kormsen

korm kormsen

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i had normal house-bell bottoms plus diodes in service for years.