WHAT GRADE OF CABLE FOR GARDEN RAILWAY

[TONYWARD50]

I have a Massoth 1200 digital system and am running an outdoor layout, but I want to keep the 1200Z indoors. The closest point to the track is about 30 feet from the house and the layout is about 15 feet by 20 feet.
What cable should I use to connect the 1200Z to the track and how many feeds would I need, assuming there may be voltage drops ?
Also does anyone find this humid weather plays havoc with the cleanliness of the track ?

Regards

 

[Gizzy]

If you can purchase some good quality speaker cable of at least 4mm cross section, then this would be ideal for the job.

I have only one feed from my MTS Central Station to the track, with the furthest point being no more than 80 feet away. I haven't seen the need for additional feeds; the cross section of (mainly) LGB rail is more than sufficient. Also, I have double track with crossovers so I've effectively a distibuted power feed anyway.

I haven't had any issues with humidity, but part of my track runs behind the pond and sometimes gets the spray from the water fountain blown onto it. Last week I had continuity problems there, so I took up the track, put copper slip in the joiners and relaid it. This resolved the problem. As this part of the track has some short 300mm straights, I shall get round the problem by fitting a long 1200 mm one....

 

[Zerogee]

In the prepared trackbed for my (as yet still unlaid!) layout, I've used some very heavy gauge speaker cable as Gizzy suggested, bought from Maplins. Just for belt-and-braces peace of mind I've laid three feeds roughly equidistant round the garden, though I probably won't really need them. All cables then gather together and run under an area of block paving, up and into the conservatory wall through some conduit pipe, and the Dimax will live inside the conservatory.

Jon.

 

[PhilP]

4mm, or bigger if you can afford it..
Run it in a length of garden hose, and put in a length of nylon builders twine whilst you are at it! - Tie the ends (left long) to 'something' substantial which will not disappear down the hose.

This will protect the cable from UV, which will kill the plastics in a couple of years.. You can bury it, or tack it to a fence..
Can use plastic conduit for a real pukka job if there is a fence/wall to fasten it to. The twine gives you a 'draw-wire' to add additional, or replacement, cable(s) at a later date.

 

[DaveB2]

Sorry to ask a noob question but when you say ...

so I took up the track, put copper slip in the joiners and relaid it.

Do you mean the same copper grease you buy from Halfords for your car / bike or did you really mean LGB graphite grease? I have a Halfords close by but the LGB stuff I have to mail order so if I can use the Halfords stuff as a substitute I'm a happy chappy.

Dave

 

[pghewett]

I would strongly endorse using either hosepipe sheathing or having heavily armoured cable - gardens are full of nocturnals fitted with sharp teeth and an inquisitive cast of mind.

BTW, if you have more than one feed point, I find it best to lay the cable in sections from feeder to feeder with proper cable joiners, rather than rely on simply breaking into the trunk cable.

GH

 

[Gizzy]

Sorry to ask a noob question but when you say ...

so I took up the track, put copper slip in the joiners and relaid it.

Do you mean the same copper grease you buy from Halfords for your car / bike or did you really mean LGB graphite grease? I have a Halfords close by but the LGB stuff I have to mail order so if I can use the Halfords stuff as a substitute I'm a happy chappy.

Dave

Hullo Dave, Cooper Slip/Grease for cars is exactly the stuff I use.

About 1/4 of the size of a pea in each fishplate joiner....

 

[ge_rik]

I used 2.5mm twin and earth cable for my railway. It's been down 6-7 years now and not had a problem with it. I happened to have some left over from a building job I carried out before constructing the railway so opted for it (waste not want not etc). It's not as flexible as speaker cable but I reckoned that once it was laid it wasn't going to go anywhere. My thinking was that a single solid core of cable was likely to be more durable than multi-strand. After all it's what they wire houses with and then plaster over it so it has to be somewhat bomb-proof.

Not sure about its susceptibility to UV but as my cable is buried out of sight I'm assuming it's going to be OK. One of my exterior lights is wired up with T&E tacked to the wall and it's been there nearly 20 years and still seems OK.

Rik

 

[PhilP]

I had wondered about Copa-slip..
Just put a blob on the bench and put the meter on it. - Open circuit.
However, the thin smear of 'grease' will stop the weather and oxygen getting to the metal and causing corrosion.

It would be interesting to know if the LGB stuff is actually conductive??

 

[Cliff George]

Yes I agree with what has been said 4mm gauge wire is good for the DCC track bus.

Many of the DCC books including the one by Stan Ames (and some websites) have tables in them to show what gauge wire to use to keep voltage drop to an acceptable minimum for various lengths of bus and central station power. These are mostly in AWG, which you then need to convert.

I use standard 4mm, solid core, house wire singles, purchases in large 100m length drums from any good electrical distributor.

For runs over about 10m I've have gone to 6mm gauge house wire.

Get two different colour wires and twist them together, stick to the same colour scheme throughout. The twisting together not only keeps the wires together but will reduce radio interference. Obviously the different colours help to identify which side of the track a wire should be connected to. Some sort of UV protection is a good idea. All of mine are buried for this reason.

Since G Scale track has a much bigger cross section than the wires used to get power to them you do not need extra feeders for voltage drop reasons, especially when using rail clamps throughout. However extra feeders may be of benefit where conductivity at joints could be suspect, where sectionalisation is needed, for example where there are multiple power districts or a need for detected sections for computer control, or where you need to connect up some accessory such as a reverse loop unit.

 

[beavercreek]

The extra feeders, for a large layout, are a good idea when using stainless steel track as its conductivity is not so good as brass.
If using brass track, as already has been said, just ensure that the connectivity between each piece of track is good and voltage drop should not be a problem...unless you have a mammoth layout which is over around 250 metres for one circuit.

 

[Gizzy]

I had wondered about Copa-slip..
Just put a blob on the bench and put the meter on it. - Open circuit.
However, the thin smear of 'grease' will stop the weather and oxygen getting to the metal and causing corrosion.

It would be interesting to know if the LGB stuff is actually conductive??

I recall someone doing a similar test on the LGB graphite grease, and getting the same result, i.e. it is not conductive.

But as you mentioned, it prevents any oxidation which may cause electrical continuity problems....

 

[TONYWARD50]

Aha, so.......
if I use 5-amp domestic lighting cable (the light grey kind) and use rail clamps rather than the brass fishplates/railjoiners/call them what you will the I should be OK and not worry about voltage drop.

Is that about right, guys ?

Cheers.

 

[dutchelm]

My railway is wired using 1mm single core and I have never had any problems with voltage drop. The track is fed in several places, not because of voltage drop in the cables or rails but dodgy rail joints. The Aristo screws are loosing their grip after 14 years. Any that give trouble are replaced with rail clamps.

The cables are directly burried & the only problems encountered are the brown cores. The birds pull them up as they think they are worms!

 

[mike]

i have the 1200z in the house, a 3 core twin and earth flex cable(of a roll ) is run to the railway .. 18 track feeds ,from the track power wire, running the full length of the railway, via soilered tabs,conected to the massoth railclaps/hillamans ,..it has made a differnsce.
but what would i know

 

[muns]

i have the 1200z in the house, a 3 core twin and earth flex cable(of a roll ) is run to the railway .. 18 track feeds ,from the track power wire, running the full length of the railway, via soilered tabs,conected to the massoth railclaps/hillamans ,..it has made a differnsce.
but what would i know

dunno Mike I have no idea!
I use 1.5mm "singles" from the electrical wholesaler for my train detector track section feeds.

 

[ge_rik]

All my track is bonded with soldered joints so I figure that the rail is a more substantial bus than the cable. However, my reverse loop is furthermost from the house (a run of about 25m) and because I'd already run a cable there in pre-DCC days I used that to supply power from the reverse loop module which I've positioned in the dry in the outhouse. Similarly all but one of my electrically operated points (again the furthest is about 25m away) are run off the same cabling with the decoders in the outhouse. As before, I've not experienced any problems with my 2.5mm T&E cable and I don't think I could squeeze anything larger into the connectors on the point motors. I'd assumed that as it was rated to handle up to 15A then it should be OK (unless you're intending to run several BigBoys and Mallets) - but then as Mike says, "What do I know?"

Rik

 

[stockers]

2.5mm mains twin and earth here - the old colours - black and red, because I had some left over. I consider this over kill. The 1mm lighting cable should do the trick.
I am no expert but 4 and 6mm sounds over the top to me - but there again I'll bet it works.

 

[sparky230]

All mine is in 4 core 1.5mm Fp200 (fire cable to those who dont know) serious overkill as this stuff is about £150 a drum, but i had sevral part drums of old colours that I cant legal use work wise

 

[dutchelm]

I think the ultimate answer is to use what is going free!