Very basic questions about using DCC.

[Sarah Winfield]

Aghhhhhh......just when I though I had it!

So, only one DPDT switch for either of my reverse loops whether it is one track or two?

PhilP, as far as sound ceasing, if you hear this sobbing in the corner it'll be me.

SW

 

[Zerogee]

If you set an analogue controller to run your loco forwards.. The loco will go forwards (chimney first), whichever way round it is on the track. - That is what I was saying..

Eh?? Phil, are you SURE you've got that right? Maybe I need Subtitles for the Hard of Thinking today, but I can't get my head around this..... what you're saying is that if you took (for example) two DC Stainzes, and put them on the track facing in opposite directions, when you turn the DC controller knob they will both run in opposite directions? I don't think they will.......

Jon.

 

[Sarah Winfield]

I hope there is no dissension from the forum as a result of my inability to comprehend what I am I am being told.

Believe me the fault all is mine.

SW.

 

[PhilP]

Eh?? Phil, are you SURE you've got that right? Maybe I need Subtitles for the Hard of Thinking today, but I can't get my head around this..... what you're saying is that if you took (for example) two DC Stainzes, and put them on the track facing in opposite directions, when you turn the DC controller knob they will both run in opposite directions? I don't think they will.......

Jon.

Eeeek!

Yes, you are right... My bad!

Same direction along the track, just bunker-first, as opposed to chimney-first.
(Sorry Jond!)

 

[Zerogee]

Eeeek!

Yes, you are right... My bad!

Same direction along the track, just bunker-first, as opposed to chimney-first.
(Sorry Jond!)

No problem, Phil - I found that the harder I thought about it, the less and less sure I was of what I thought I knew.....

Sarah - don't worry, I don't think anyone has got upset by this - we all get confused from time to time. I think you'd actually grasped it, so if you forget the exchanges in the last few posts and go back to what you last thought was right, I think you will be! I hope that makes more sense to you than I think it does......

"I think, therefore I am...... I think?"

"I'm pink, therefore I'm Spam...."

Jon.

 

[Zerogee]

So, Sarah, to try and put it simply: on DC, the loco will always run the same direction round the track when you turn the knob the same way, irrespective of whether the loco is facing "forwards" or "backwards" - so if turning the knob to the right means the loco runs clockwise round the circuit, the loco will ALWAYS run clockwise when the knob is to the right, regardless of which way the loco is pointing on the track. If you have two locos on the track they will both run the SAME direction round the circuit, whichever way round the locos are pointing.

On DCC, turning the knob to the right sends a command to the loco's decoder that says "go forwards" - so if the loco is pointing clockwise, it will run forwards, but if it pointing anticlockwise then it will STILL run "forwards", ie: it will run anticlockwise. Turning the knob to the left tells the decoder "go backwards", so the loco will run bunker-first whichever way it is pointing on the track. If you have two DCC locos on the track pointing in opposite directions and both are given "go forwards" commands, then they will both run in OPPOSITE directions and collide!

Does that make sense, or not?

Jon.

 

[dunnyrail]

Aghhhhhh......just when I though I had it!

So, only one DPDT switch for either of my reverse loops whether it is one track or two?

PhilP, as far as sound ceasing, if you hear this sobbing in the corner it'll be me.

SW

If it is wired as in the recent diagram with two sets of isolators (8 all told) you will need two switches or 3 if you include the other reverce loop as you have in effect 3 of them.

 

[dunnyrail]

If you set an analogue controller to run your loco forwards.. The loco will go forwards (chimney first), whichever way round it is on the track. - That is what I was saying..

No no no that is dcc!

 

[PhilP]

No no no that is dcc!

Yes, agreed.. I refer you to post #64

 

[ntpntpntp]

Oh dear - poor Sarah, must be very confusing if even some of our old hands on here are getting it wrong!

I agree with the the earlier post that suggest go out there and try it. Learn by actual experience and repeat until YOU understand what will happen. Plonk loco on DCC track, turn the control knob "forward". Loco will move forward. Stop the loco. Pick up loco and turn it round. turn the control knob "forward" - the loco will still go forward, in the opposite direction to what is was.

If you do the same thing on analogue DC track, the loco will run backward after you turn it round.

On DC, the direction of the controller knob influences the voltage and polarity to the track and indicates the direction a loco will go round the track (clockwise or anticlockwise). You can swap the power feed wires over and the direction will change. DC controls the track.

On DCC, the direction of the controller knob influences digital commands sent out to the loco decoder and indicates the direction the loco will move (forward or backward) relative to its "front". You can swap the power feed wires and the direction will NOT change. DCC controls the loco.

It can take a while for long time DC folk changing over to DCC to "unlearn" driving "left" or "right" from where they're standing, and to learn to drive "forward" or "backward" instead.

 

[dunnyrail]

Oh dear - poor Sarah, must be very confusing if even some of our old hands on here are getting it wrong!

I agree with the the earlier post that suggest go out there and try it. Learn by actual experience and repeat until YOU understand what will happen. Plonk loco on DCC track, turn the control knob "forward". Loco will move forward. Stop the loco. Pick up loco and turn it round. turn the control knob "forward" - the loco will still go forward, in the opposite direction to what is was.

If you do the same thing on analogue DC track, the loco will run backward after you turn it round.

On DC, the direction of the controller knob influences the voltage and polarity to the track and indicates the direction a loco will go round the track (clockwise or anticlockwise). You can swap the power feed wires over and the direction will change. DC controls the track.

On DCC, the direction of the controller knob influences digital commands sent out to the loco decoder and indicates the direction the loco will move (forward or backward) relative to its "front". You can swap the power feed wires and the direction will NOT change. DCC controls the loco.

It can take a while for long time DC folk changing over to DCC to "unlearn" driving "left" or "right" from where they're standing, and to learn to drive "forward" or "backward" instead.

I get lots of visitors to my line that have never operated DCC. To help them I set the Locomotives up so that when they twiddle the Massoth Control Knob left the loco goes left and when they twiddle to the right the loco goes to the right. All well and good for the greatest majority of the line, but my line has a dogbone in it and two of the station are opposite as the loco has turned round whilst travercing the loop to those stations. Then they get confused so I have to try to get them to understand the concept that Chimney First equates to Forwards with the Massoth handset. Needless to say they are all to a man DC Analogue types.

 

[Neil Robinson]

I set the Locomotives up so that when they twiddle the Massoth Control Knob left the loco goes left and when they twiddle to the right the loco goes to the right. All well and good for the greatest majority of the line...............

I'm a great fan of the loco images on the Navigatior. For steam and any other loco with distinct ends I set direction to match the image. I don't think there's an image for a Double Fairlie but I haven't got one so no matter.

 

[dunnyrail]

I'm a great fan of the loco images on the Navigatior. For steam and any other loco with distinct ends I set direction to match the image. I don't think there's an image for a Double Fairlie but I haven't got one so no matter.

Other than in the Instruction Manual which after my latest updats is out of date with newer images, is there a Webb Link to the updated Loco Images?

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Sarah, you can control both isolated sections with ONE switch.

Restrictions in DCC are only one train crossing an "insulated boundry" at a time.

I'd strongly urge the LEDs so you can tell when to proceed across an "insulated boundry", and I would put the LEDs at each of the 4 boundries shown, they are cheap and makes it easier to see.

Greg

 

[muns]

Other than in the Instruction Manual which after my latest updats is out of date with newer images, is there a Webb Link to the updated Loco Images?

The Massoth 2018 Navigator image table is attached.

 

[dunnyrail]

I'm a great fan of the loco images on the Navigatior. For steam and any other loco with distinct ends I set direction to match the image. I don't think there's an image for a Double Fairlie but I haven't got one so no matter.

Aha I thought so, the Sachen IIK image 99 on the Table that Muns has linked is about as good as you would get for now. Though it is of course for a 6+6 wheeler.

 

[Sarah Winfield]

My DPDT switch is wired in. Does it make any difference to the way the reverse loop works if the switch doesn't have a centre off position but instead just has 2 positions.

It's working part way but when I have the switch in the second position the locomotive won't move. The voltage indicated is very low?

Thanks.

Sarah Winfield

 

[Greg Elmassian]

If there is nothing bridging the insulated gaps you have a wiring issue with the switch.

Are you positive you have all 4 insulated gaps actually insulated?

Greg

 

[PhilP]

As Greg says.. Are both rails gapped at both ends of the loop? - One switch will do one of your loops.

Does your meter have a continuity setting (possibly a picture of a diode, and a speaker)? - If so, set it to this, and touch the probes together.. You should hear a 'beep'..

Now,
Power OFF.
NO loco's on the track.
Touch the probes on the railhead either side of one of your insulated joiners... If you get a 'beep', operate your switch and try again. - You should NOT have a 'beep' now.
Do the same for the other rail, then the same at the other end of the loop..

 

[Greg Elmassian]

If not continuity, then the "Ohms" or "Resistance" scale.