Unworked Points

duncan1_9_8_4

duncan1_9_8_4

Garden Railway Operator
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Afternoon. As you may know I am planning a turning circle in the front garden, very remote from the rest of the layout. Other than the Return Loop Module, there won't be any other electrics or complications. So the point work..... I have an LGB manual switch, which as you all know can be worked as a sprung point, theoretically throwing back, but they sometimes derail the following stock....
I also have a Piko switch, that still has it's tension clip, meaning trains can force their way through, but the point blades will stay flicked into the new position and not derail follow stock, as the heavy locomotive did the point for it's following stock.

So, which would you choose.....?
 
I would think that if stock derails trying to push through then they are not heavy enough. Pieces of roofing lead can be added but swapping plastic wheels for metal could also work.

Do you want the trains to follow the same route each time or is it OK to swap direction each time? Would add variety.

Paul
 
duncan1_9_8_4 said:
Afternoon. As you may know I am planning a turning circle in the front garden, very remote from the rest of the layout. Other than the Return Loop Module, there won't be any other electrics or complications. So the point work..... I have an LGB manual switch, which as you all know can be worked as a sprung point, theoretically throwing back, but they sometimes derail the following stock....
I also have a Piko switch, that still has it's tension clip, meaning trains can force their way through, but the point blades will stay flicked into the new position and not derail follow stock, as the heavy locomotive did the point for it's following stock.

So, which would you choose.....?
Click to expand...
Neither, I don't like the idea of push through for model trains. We use them successfully on the 7.25" gauge miniature railway, but once we go as small as G scale, the lack of scale weight always puts me off (plus the fact that I have very few wheelsets with the ginormous LGB flanges).
 
voodoopenguin said:
I would think that if stock derails trying to push through then they are not heavy enough. Pieces of roofing lead can be added but swapping plastic wheels for metal could also work.

Do you want the trains to follow the same route each time or is it OK to swap direction each time? Would add variety.

Paul
Click to expand...
Absolutely fine to change route every time.
 
Rhinochugger said:
Neither, I don't like the idea of push through for model trains. We use them successfully on the 7.25" gauge miniature railway, but once we go as small as G scale, the lack of scale weight always puts me off (plus the fact that I have very few wheelsets with the ginormous LGB flanges).
Click to expand...
Needs must I'm afraid.....
 
If sprung points do not operate properly it is usually caused by the back to back of the wheels not being correct. If the wheel gauge is too wide they try to push the point over too early & ride over the top.
 
Most switches tend to not work that well after time. A method that works well once set up is to use some spring wire to return the blades, can be mounted on the sleepers acting on the Stretcher Bar (sleeper on our track).
 
duncan1_9_8_4 said:
I have an LGB manual switch, which as you all know can be worked as a sprung point, theoretically throwing back, but they sometimes derail the following stock....
Click to expand...

If you remove the switch altogether, won't it act in the same way as the Piko one? The train will go into the loop whichever way the point is set, the loco will be heavy enough to throw the blades across when it leaves the loop, and the blades will then be set for the wagons/coaches, so no derailing. The next train weill do the same but going the opposite way round the loop.

Cheers

David
 
an alternative (for elevated railways only) :

using a piece of fishing line and a fishing weight, using the line and a hole in the table, to hang the weight from one side of the switch-bar.
result: a low tec, fail safe way to enter the loop always from the same side.

playing with the size of the weight, this can be adjusted to the weight of the rolling stock.
 
I would use the point without any mechanism at all. It does sound like a recipe for disaster but with the chunky and over large diameter G scale flanges it will work. Don't be clouded by the fact that in other scales with fine flanges it would not work and would drag the blades across.

Having a return spring puts it's operation on a knife edge. It will work only in perfect conditions with a point in an as new condition and level track, heavy stock and good back to back dimensions.

I used R3 points without any control on a return loop for many years without any problem.

As you are on R1 you could test the theory, you have nothing to lose, by temporarily removing a drive from one of your existing points and seeing how a train performs pushing through uncontrolled blades. Then you will be reassured to adopt a flip flop point on an unseen portion of your railway.

Alan
 
SevenOfDiamonds said:
If you remove the switch altogether, won't it act in the same way as the Piko one? The train will go into the loop whichever way the point is set, the loco will be heavy enough to throw the blades across when it leaves the loop, and the blades will then be set for the wagons/coaches, so no derailing. The next train weill do the same but going the opposite way round the loop.

Cheers

David
Click to expand...
In theory. But when I've tried that before, the loco does push the blade across perfectly into Reverse, but when pushing the blades into Normal, they never push up flush, meaning that when the train returns, it will slice the point blades and try going both ways leading to derailment. That's where PIKO points are better I guess because the tension clip under the cover makes them clip across flush.
 
In general, a point blades should be firmly located against the appropriate stock rail. If you want to do an alternating reverse loop style operation you will need some sort of toggle-over spring function to ensure the point blade is not able to flop around when it is pushed to a new position.

As far as running through a 'spring' point from the toe end, metal wheels on all rolling stock is pretty much essential in my experience.
 
Fezwig said:
@Nodrog1826 has done quite a bit with sprung points on his thread trying different ways.
Post in thread 'Eighton Bahn AKA testing testing RhB' Eighton Bahn AKA testing testing RhB
Click to expand...

As Pete has stated I have installed and sort of settled on a sort of Piko over centre spring sort of idea to re set the points after a train pushes through, so the route remains set for trains to follow.

Nodrog1826

Post in thread 'Eighton Bahn AKA testing testing RhB'

So my idea of route resetting springy points, has seen further re thinking.

I invested in some 1ft lengths of 1/2mm dia spring wire, so there are now two differing versions of the re set spring...

P1030944.JPG

P1030943.JPG

...version 1 is an overgrown over ctr spring that springs along the inside of the point blade, anchored at both ends, under the rail chairs at the wide end and in the over ctr spring hole at the other...

P1030945.JPG

...version 2 is an over ctr spring which is connected to through a hole drilled into the blade.

Both styles have been set up for evaluation, and have...

The long spring version worked, but was prone to becomming detatched at the long end and causing a detrailment. The "Piko" version has the advantage of it can re adjusted by changing the shape of the "V" for a lighter effort required to push the blades across, to allow for lighter stock to do so. The locos may be heavy but the train behind it will be light.
Like any system they require maintenance, greasing/oiling whichever is your preference, and also like any system they are not 100% reliable, but by my usage they are near enough.
 
I have found that just using an epl drive without any wiring is enough to hold the points hard over. But the blades can be pushed over by a loco, the point then stays in the new direction. I’ve only done this with lgb R3, it should work with R1. Give it a try.
A dead, but free to operate motor would be ideal.

Malcolm
 
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