Track laying like Nicolas Trudgian

[lgbmad]

Hi all
I have recently read (and could not put down!!) 'A Garden Railway Adventure' by Nicolas Trudgian. In the chapter dealing with track laying,Nicholas lays his track on concrete lintels(available in various lengths) supported on concrete/brick piers . This sounds like a great idea because you would not require so many piers as the lintels pretty much support them selves, and you know the track would be kept flat and true.
SO......has anyone out there used lintels, if so are there are pros & cons please?
Thank you all
Kev

 

[dutchelm]

Hi all
I have recently read (and could not put down!!) 'A Garden Railway Adventure' by Nicolas Trudgian. In the chapter dealing with track laying,Nicholas lays his track on concrete lintels(available in various lengths) supported on concrete/brick piers . This sounds like a great idea because you would not require so many piers as the lintels pretty much support them selves, and you know the track would be kept flat and true.
SO......has anyone out there used lintels, if so are there are pros & cons please?
Thank you all
Kev

One con. Nick put his back out!!!!!

 

[railwayman198]

A lot depends on how confident you are that the track plan you have now is one you will still be happy with in 5 or 10 years time. Another consideration is how stable is the soil you are building on. If you are close to trees the roots will eventually move even the firmest foundations. That being said I'm a fan of 'permanent' track bases - I find the constant fettling of track floating in ballast a pain.

 

[New Haven Neil 2]

One of the best , no THE best garden railway book I have ever read.

No idea about lintels - they would sink under theier own weight in our garden it's so wet.

 

[annieshalt]

good idea that but a bit over engineered put mine on 3ft wood stakes with boards.
hence no bad back dont forget we run g guage not 7", live steam.
have a good think about it before you decide. will you need all that strength???.

 

[mike]

as a bove, its atoy train, not the real deal

 

[Gizzy]

I've never seen a curved lintel?

Do they do R1s....

 

[yb281]

Don't forget that Nick's railway was laid on some pretty solid foundations - the remains of a WW2 bomb shelter!!! Is your garden railway going to have such a strong base? Are you going to be able to get them into your garden (I'd need to hire a crane to get em into mine)?

Certainly would provide an excellent base, but have you thoroughly explored the civil engineering that would be involved?
edit - and the cost?????????

 

[beavercreek]

If I was going to relay my layout with it being at a greater height for access in some areas, and also to allow planting etc to come right up to it, I would consider the use of oak railway sleepers on piers (either more sleepres or breeze block or timber struts in large size metposts). The sleepers can be real old used jobbies or the 'new' ones that are found in garden centres.
They can be cut at angles to allow curves (granted, R1s would need a lot of cutting!), can be easily bolted together and would last for ages. I have used one for the twin tracks of the main part of my layout to cross by our steps that go to the lawn and it is wide enough to allow two straight tracks with width enough for 1:20.3 scale kit.

I do know of a member who has used reconstituted plastic planking to build the roadbed that is ay ground level and also at waist level. This looks very good also and is obviously not as back breaking as the oak sleeper arrangement...but planting is the issue.

 

[bazzer42]

I have used breeze blocks as a base and have used them for trainline r2's by laying them upright and fanned to the appropriate diameter (180 degree curve) and where smaller curves are required just by pure jointing them. I have also used space blocks infilled with scalpings, both methods give a nice flat and true bed. They also allow you to fit torx type security screws through the sleepers into the block.

I have used concrete gravel boards that are used on fences as bridges. If you run an angle grinder along the inner ridge of a 6" board the track will make a nice snug fit. I guess these could also be used upside down in the form of a lintel but not so easy to fit my torx screws. I may recycle my old bridge into the base of branch extension when SHE gives me permission to start......

 

[The Devonian]

I laid timber offcuts ( approx. 3ft. long, 6" wide and 4" deep) in a trench in the ground for the base of my straight sections. Building blocks were used for the curved sections; concrete filled in the gaps.
None of this (other than the cement) cost a penny. The timber, as I said, was off cuts which I was given and the building blocks were from demolished walls.
There are many building sites/front gardens which have blocks going free - it saves them taking them to the dump!
All part of elementary recycling.
The added bonus is that weeds and strong growing plants do not push up through the track.

 

[Woderwick]

Sleepers? Not the creosoted variety I hope.

 

[peterbunce]

Hi,

I have Nick's book and like yourself think it to be very good; note that his layout is, I believe either battery power or steam. His layout work to build is quite close to full size practice.

Nick had the space, and inclination, for long trains and a base (the old WW2 shelter) that had done the a lot of the filling for different levels; the amount of hardcore and such that the shelter saved would, and is, considerable.

He also had the cash for all the expensive blocks and sleepers (don't forget his comment that he almost owned the local builders merchant!).

I with a much smaller garden have used Thermalite blocks which have been very good: I have a compound slope different levels were worked out as well, the laying of those will not cause you any damage (even better if someone lays them - with your help to reduce the bill).

They and some others that have been laid much earlier are still OK, and have stood up to the weather with no damage.The Peco track is fixed direct to the top surface.

I think that Nick's layout is superb and I have not seen it, (I live a bit far away!) but it, and the book do provide inspiration.

 

[beavercreek]

Sleepers? Not the creosoted variety I hope.

Nahhh either the decreosoted and sealed old ones or the new ones that are really just hunks of oak cut into sleepr-like dimensions (actually they are are a lot smaller than the old 'real' ones)

 

[oldoak]

Hi all
I have recently read (and could not put down!!) 'A Garden Railway Adventure' by Nicolas Trudgian. In the chapter dealing with track laying,Nicholas lays his track on concrete lintels(available in various lengths) supported on concrete/brick piers . This sounds like a great idea because you would not require so many piers as the lintels pretty much support them selves, and you know the track would be kept flat and true.
SO......has anyone out there used lintels, if so are there are pros & cons please?
Thank you all
Kev

I did try it last year.
The practical problem is leveling!
When one lays bricks it is usual to place a dab of mortar on a firm base then place the brick on top, not enough mortar you lift the brick with one hand, and lay additional mortar with the other, or lift & remove as required. A concrete lintel is so heavy it takes two hands to lift it, so a lot of bending is required also trying to bed the second end can stuff up the first end due to the extra point load on the first end.
If two people can put both ends down at the same time and a third can place the mortar it will work??????
Ok for one off?s like a bridge but very very frustrating for a run.

 

[Rhinochugger]

Let's get back to basics.

Building control requirements can often require house foundations to go down as deep as 2.0m. That is not for loadbearing reasons, that is to prevent ground heave from frost and water table changes.

So, unless you plan to go down 2.0m, it is reasonably foreseeable that you will have to indulge in some track re-levelling at some time.

My suggestion therefore, is that all you need to do is to ensure that you have a track base that is sufficiently solid to prevent your line from sinking into any soft earth.

If you want to be assured of something permanent, be my guest and dig down 2.0m

 

[lgbmad]

Hi all
thank you all for the info and advise , each message has given me something to think about.....me brain hurts (easily done now days!!!)
I do think that once I start to dig down a few inches I will hit compacted shale/rock which would make for a good base on its own,its only the area at the front of the bank (where the shrubs and trees are) that may need back filling with hardcore as that was filled with compost and horse pooh(notice I am being polite here and did not say --IT)
First job...out with the trees and shrubs....if you dont hear from me again.......permission has not yet been sort from the highest authority!!!
Take care all
Kev

 

[Rob s]

Hi all
I have recently read (and could not put down!!) 'A Garden Railway Adventure' by Nicolas Trudgian. In the chapter dealing with track laying,Nicholas lays his track on concrete lintels(available in various lengths) supported on concrete/brick piers . This sounds like a great idea because you would not require so many piers as the lintels pretty much support them selves, and you know the track would be kept flat and true.
SO......has anyone out there used lintels, if so are there are pros & cons please?
Thank you all
Kev

I did try it last year.
The practical problem is leveling!
When one lays bricks it is usual to place a dab of mortar on a firm base then place the brick on top, not enough mortar you lift the brick with one hand, and lay additional mortar with the other, or lift & remove as required. A concrete lintel is so heavy it takes two hands to lift it, so a lot of bending is required also trying to bed the second end can stuff up the first end due to the extra point load on the first end.
If two people can put both ends down at the same time and a third can place the mortar it will work??????
Ok for one off?s like a bridge but very very frustrating for a run.

We lay 1/4 tonne lintels using a one pass method

Shim the tops of your pillars level with pieces of slate (say 2" x 4"
pieces in the middle) using a long straight edge and spirit level, then
place the mortar bed on to just above top of slate, as a semi-dry mix.

Place lintel on top usually 1/2 way accross post, so 1/2 the slate is
showing for the next lintle, this gives the same level, then tap the
lintle down to the slate shim and point edges with standard mortar
mix works every time, no need to re-lift or tilt

 

[ge_rik]

I have used breeze blocks as a base and have used them for trainline r2's by laying them upright and fanned to the appropriate diameter (180 degree curve) and where smaller curves are required just by pure jointing them.

Breeze blocks for me too largely because a had a couple of dozen left over after building a porch.

Their advantage is they are quick and easy to lay and can readily be relaid if you change your plans at a later date. The disadvantage is the odd block can sink over time no matter how well the underlying ground is firmed-up. I don't bed them in concrete and brush a dry mix of sand and cement into the gaps to help prevent weed growth - this means they are easy to dig up if needs-be.

Rik

PS The raised beds are also made from breeze blocks clad in cleaved sandstone.

 

[dunnyrail]

I have used Concrete Lintels and there are a few wrangles to think about. They do indeed need a good solid foundation, and if long preferably one in the middle too. But a brick pillar 2 bricks square is all you need and you can quickly build this up to 2-3 feet if needed. Cement the Lintel in place, cement should sort out both ends and the intermediate one if you mix a good mix that can be gently tamped down.

Cutting,nremember that there will be steel rods in there so Mr Angle Driver needs to come into play, I use Metal Curring they go through the Cement OK.

I have had a lintel crack but it still does the job OK.

You can also put them side by side and up to 15inch apart to lay paving flags on as I have done on two of my Stations.

Good luck with your project oh and she who must be obeyed.
JonD