Track Cleaning dcc problems

[Greg Elmassian]

Virtually any decoder, but I don't know the costs in the UK, here we usually find the NCE D408 for 30 bucks, or often free... basic motor and lights.

I would seek the advice of the UK members here, but it's nice to vary the speed of the motor, reversing it is not so functional, but I have seen that done too for very oxidized track on the first pass.

Greg

 

[Dan]

The better way to get the LGB track cleaner working great is to install the MD decoder made for the tcl. Only issue I had was lights were way too bright (will burn out fast), so I found you can dim the lights by changine the dimming value for each from 15 to a lower number. On my Zimo system I needed a 10 for all 5 lights.. Front/Rear/Cabin/both flashing lights). MD ties the lights to V+. My system has a high V+as track is at 24 volts. Other systems will have lower voltages and may need to set dim value to 11 or 12.

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Dan do you have a link to the data sheet (and model number) of this decoder? I gather it has just on/off for the cleaning motor?

Greg

 

[adamski]

I think the decoder Dan mentioned is this one MD-ELECTRONICS - DIGITAL
I cant read where though you can adjust the cleaning wheel speed via dcc. It says it has soft start and it can be controlled but no mention how. Also with this decoder is it rip out the existing lgb pcb and fully replace with this decoder again not very clear

DRIVE-SR
Special locomotive decoder for LGB cleaning locomotives with Soft-Start cleaning motor control with soft-control​

 

[adamski]

The better way to get the LGB track cleaner working great is to install the MD decoder made for the tcl. Only issue I had was lights were way too bright (will burn out fast), so I found you can dim the lights by changine the dimming value for each from 15 to a lower number. On my Zimo system I needed a 10 for all 5 lights.. Front/Rear/Cabin/both flashing lights). MD ties the lights to V+. My system has a high V+as track is at 24 volts. Other systems will have lower voltages and may need to set dim value to 11 or 12.

Hi Dan thanks for this, I have been to their site and it does look a good decoder but I have a few questions
1 Is it a complete replacement ie remove all the old lgb pcb and wire directly to decoder ?
2 How do you control the speed of the cleaning wheels using dcc as I cant find where how do though it says you can
3 Do you know of anyone who sells these in the uk

many thanks

adam

 

[The Shed]

1 Is it a complete replacement ie remove all the old lgb pcb and wire directly to decoder ?

Removal of existing Decoder and Back Plate PCB, reconnect to a new single board PCB incorporating the decoder, refer to picture below.

2 How do you control the speed of the cleaning wheels using dcc as I can't find where how do though it says you can

Cleaner motor control is incorporated as part of the Loco motor control, soft start is for the cleaning motor, prevents the usual scenario of the cleaner motor going off like a startled rabbit.

3 Do you know of anyone who sells these in the uk

Given the circumstances surrounding Covid19, and the rigmarole over Value Added Tax and Import Duties, wouldn't hold your breath on that happening any time soon!

Going back to #post 1, has it as yet been determined as to whether the 55021 decoder or the Back Plate PCB is the cause of the problem?

Perhaps once this has been established, then maybe an alternative and economical solution will present itself.

 

[The Shed]

'If you go the decoder and relay route :
You will need a bridge rectifier, on the feed to the cleaning motor

You may wish to consider a speed controller, for the cleaning motor, as well?

Anything 3A or greater, at 50V or more will do the job..

The simplest way to switch the cleaning motor, would be two relays..
A SPST to turn off / on, and a DPDT for direction.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reversible-Controller-Regulator-Electrical-Controls/dp/B07QLM6LMG/ref=sr_1_25?crid=3562CRJDESRSR&dchild=1&keywords=24v+speed+controller&qid=1611916707&sprefix=24v+speed+%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-25

That unit would be fine..
Track power into bridge. Output from bridge into the controller.
Either mount the switch somewhere on the loco, or wire a DPDT relay in its place.
A SPST relay in one leg of either the track input to the bridge, or between the bridge and speed controller, would give you control via DCC.'

It would indeed be useful if the Author of the above comments could supply:
A) a parts list:
B) a connection diagram:
C) instructions for use with a decoder:

In these times of economic duress and difficulty obtaining OEM or alternative's, a working economic solution would indeed be extremely useful.

 

[curtis]

Regarding the MD-Electronics SR decoder, here is the instruction manual (it's available in the "Downloads" section of the site): http://www.md-electronics.de/sitecake-content/MD mXion DRIVE-SR.pdf

My recent move to DCC has been with MD Electronics and I've been happy with the equipment, documentation and email support so far. The only thing I'd note is some of the English is not perfect but is understandable - I occasionally augment it with my (terrible) German.

I can't talk specifically for the Track Cleaning loco, but in my experience with their decoders:

1. Is it a complete replacement ie remove all the old lgb pcb and wire directly to decoder ?
There is a section in the above manual that relates to it which may make more sense to you. For the locos I've converted, I've generally removed connections to the PCB and linked directly to the second for my own simplicity.

2 How do you control the speed of the cleaning wheels using dcc as I cant find where how do though it says you can
It looks like CV 130-135 are related to the cleaning functions. If you're unsure, a quick email to the team and they'll happily clarify. I've found them to be A+ in terms of support.

3 Do you know of anyone who sells these in the uk
Unfortunately, not. I know these are made/produced specifically by MD

 

[LGB333]

HI everyone,

I have an old lgb track cleaning loco which is fitted with a LGB 555021 decoder this loco has worked fine for many years but now all of a sudden has started having problems as listed below, I run Massoth and as I said I have not altered anything and it is just this loco.

1 If I increase forward speed past speed step 6 loco runs then stops then starts up runs then stops and so on. If 1 run it under speed step 6 no problems with or without cleaning wheels running. If I run it in reverse no problem at all. It is not a power pick up problem as I have a trailing unit which has 4 lgb pick up wheels providing power to the loco as well as found that helped getting this loco over points and crossovers.

2 Cleaning wheel motor is all free and lubricated and new discs fitted to avoid any problems but motor runs fine for 5 mins at full revs then slowly gets slower. I have removed it and run it straight of a power supply and no problems so it has to be on the decoder or the internal pcb.

3 There is a set of micro switches on the pcb and a large 3 way switch does anyone know what these do and what are the correct positions for these when used for dcc operation

Any thoughts or what this maybe or how to solve it would be greatly apricated

Many Thanks

Adam

Hi Adam - I have the Massoth replacement DCC/DC onboard decoders available for sale if you need one. Maybe the import fees are too expense buying from the USA, but if you're interested you can contact me at: OldDominionRailways@gmail.com
Website; LGB Trains | Old Dominion Railways | Repairs & DCC Installs | United States

 

[Greg Elmassian]

So Massoth is not available in the UK?

 

[stockers]

Have you tried just changing the cleaning wheels - can make heck of a difference. and hugely reduce the current draw.

 

[Orgiva]

I'm currently attempting to wire in one of the mXion SR decoders into my LGB track cleaner. I've attached a picture that comes with the instructions. Could someone please tell me what the drawn in: red line, blue line, yellow line, blue crossed circle and yellow crossed circle mean on the left of the photo?

 

[curtis]

They're representing devices that can be connected in a circuit. Essentially, the decoder is acting as a power source.

In this one:

• Blue - 1 connection to the track cleaning motor
• Yellow - 1 connection to the Front Light

The other side of both returns to the common DEC+

The connections, in order from top to bottom are:

1. Motor (+)
2. Motor (-)
3. Track Cleaning Motor (-) BLUE
4. Roof Light 1 (-)
5. Roof Light 2 (-)
6. Rear Light (-)
7. Front Light (-) YELLOW
8. Inner Light (-)
9. Common Positive

Curtis

 

[Greg Elmassian]

So is pin #1 common to both motors?

 

[curtis]

I'd say no. Interpreting from the diagram, 1 and 2 are for the "normal" loco motors. I say this because connector 3 [Track Cleaning Motor (-) Reiningsmotor (-)] is shown as connected back using the red line into the DEC + common.

Elsewhere in the documentation p.135], you're able to set CVs (130+) for the behaviour of the function of the cleaning output. Looking at the default values listed it appears as if it requires Function 1 pressed (CV130 : Value 1) and triggers in forward driving only (CV132 : Value 7).

How old is the Track Cleaning Loco? Page 7 seems to provide a good summary of where existing connections can be connected to the decoder. However, I'm aware that sometimes the reality of the innards may not be a close to what is captured in the instructions.

If you're unsure, Mike - I'd say drop Marius an email. I find him really helpful and responsive

 

[Orgiva]

Curtis, thanks for your reply, very useful. Interesting that you mention page 7. The photo below shows the connector from the front end of the loco.

Wires 2 and 4 are both labelled 'DEC+'. Does that mean I connect both of them into the single connector shown as 'DEC+' on the decoder (shown in my earlier post)?

 

[curtis]

That’s my interpretation, yes. The DEC+ is the common. Essentially, you may have multiple wires running into it.

Here is my visualisation of connecting the wires up:

In my head - this is what is happening. For this use-case, the decoder is taking on two roles - a combination power source with two switches inside it. It is getting it's power from the track and those 'switches' are controlled on/off digitally. Drawing this is an extremely simple circuit (apologies to actual electrical engineers) below so you can get another perspective on what is happening I tried to keep the same colours discussed above.

 

[PhilP]

Another reason for the apparent 'two' connections, most the Massoth decoders have a 'Dec+' connection - point at both ends..

PhilP

 

[andyspencer]

Regarding the MD-Electronics SR decoder, here is the instruction manual (it's available in the "Downloads" section of the site): http://www.md-electronics.de/sitecake-content/MD mXion DRIVE-SR.pdf

My recent move to DCC has been with MD Electronics and I've been happy with the equipment, documentation and email support so far. The only thing I'd note is some of the English is not perfect but is understandable - I occasionally augment it with my (terrible) German.

I can't talk specifically for the Track Cleaning loco, but in my experience with their decoders:

1. Is it a complete replacement ie remove all the old lgb pcb and wire directly to decoder ?
There is a section in the above manual that relates to it which may make more sense to you. For the locos I've converted, I've generally removed connections to the PCB and linked directly to the second for my own simplicity.

2 How do you control the speed of the cleaning wheels using dcc as I cant find where how do though it says you can
It looks like CV 130-135 are related to the cleaning functions. If you're unsure, a quick email to the team and they'll happily clarify. I've found them to be A+ in terms of support.

3 Do you know of anyone who sells these in the uk
Unfortunately, not. I know these are made/produced specifically by MD

Amazing Little Trains Ltd are now the uk importer for the MD electronics range of products. MD have recently had a name change, now being know as 'mXion Modellbahntechnik'. We have the mXion catalogue available on our website - www.amazinglittletrains.com Our website will slowly have the products added. Of course, anyone is welcome to order via email. We are hoping to keep all pricing similar to going direct to Germany, but without the added expense and delays involved with buying from outside of the UK.

 

[Orgiva]

Curtis, thanks again for the explanation. I did write to Marius, he was very prompt in replying. It seems that you're required to put 4 wires into the single DEC+ connector. 2 wires from the 4 pin connector, 1 wire from the rear light and 1 wire from the roof light cluster. More space, or a bigger connector would have been nice!