The torture begins - first decoder installation - Massoth 'L'

[Tim Brien]

Received the Massoth 'L' today. Quite a learning curve and one big headache! The install was very easy (direct decoder) - simply fit to board and switch off DIP switches. OK, check CV's. First mistake was attempting to use the Massoth programme with the LGB #55045 pc interface not knowing what was what. OK, try using the LGB MTS 6 software. seemed to work but could not get lights to work in analogue afterwards. Interior light was fine in both directions, forward lights very dim (5 volt bulbs with CV set to 5 to limit output voltage) and rear lights not working.

Troubleshooting carried out and noted on analogue that rear lights worked only when forward light connectors removed from LGB mother board (possible short in mother board with forward lights connected?). Tried the forward lights on the smoke pins on the mother board and of cause forward lights on in both directions - not good as I would need to be able to control them.

OK, decided that there was a problem with the standard forward light pins on the mother board and so soldered wires to the 'LF' and 'D+' pins on upper surface of decoder (direct decoder installation). This time I used the Massoth software with the LGB #55045 interface and succeeded in getting the lights to work in analogue with correct orientation as regards direction. The LGB interface works well with the Massoth software. No DCC system as yet (expecting tomorrow) so unable to check digital operation.

OK, factory sound turned on in analogue and operation fine (Zillertalbahn Raimund #1) . Now I need to find if able to use function keys to operate bell and whistle in digital or if only able to use with reed contacts. Any thoughts???? Can I removed the reed connector from the LGB board and use funtion keys to trigger bell and whistle? I am tired of magnet operated sounds! Who said DCC was EASY??????

 

[mbendebba]

Tim: the problem is most likely not in the mother board, it is most likely the CV values. Make sure to turn the sound off when programming CVs, and avoid programming them all at the same time when using the 55045 with Massoth decoder. You may have to adjust the voltage for the lights and the smoke unit, the L is factory set for full track voltage.
Later on today, I will look at an L decoder using the 55045 and provide additional information.

 

[Tim Brien]

Mohammed,
the first thing that I did was remove the smoke unit. I hate them. Second thing was to lower the lighting values for 5 volts operation. Values were then set for forward and rear lighting. After experiencing the first lighting issue, I removed the decoder and reset the DIP switches to 'on'. The lighting issue was with the locomotive in analogue. I had not run it before so do not know if it had an existing fault. When the forward lights were removed from the LGB circuit board the rear lights worked. It has to be a board problem. This is why I soldered the forward light wires ('LF' and 'D+') direct to the decoder to bypass the mother board. The loco then worked correctly when decoder refitted and DIP switches selected off.

A thing that I am uncertain of is the serial function operation of the factory sound. Can I set sounds to a function key or do I have to press the function key numerous times to trigger sounds? I cannot believe people still have to press the buttons the required number of times to get a response. Will parallel operation come into play?

 

[mbendebba]

Tim:
I looked at an L decoder using the lgb 55045 and there is no issue when reading CVs one at a time and writing them one at a time. If you have to reset the decoder to factory setting, write the value 55, 66, 77 to cv 7 one at a time and it will reset all CV. Do not use the program reset option. for some CVs, the labels diplayed by the MTS 6 program are incorrect (CV53 comes to mind).
Which locomotive are you chipping? Most likely the sound board is serial, and that should not be a problem.

 

[whatlep]

(snip)
A thing that I am uncertain of is the serial function operation of the factory sound. Can I set sounds to a function key or do I have to press the function key numerous times to trigger sounds? I cannot believe people still have to press the buttons the required number of times to get a response. Will parallel operation come into play?

That's not how serial works Tim. Sounds are allocated to a specific function key, whether it's serial or parallel. In serial, the handset then transmits a pulse multiple times (e.g. for F2, two pulses, for F3, three and so on). If you press the function button multiple times, you are simply getting the handset to transmit the same set of pulses multiple times, with a high likelihood that the central station will get confused/ bored or reject the series of pulses as invalid. Note that there is no difference between serial and parallel for F1 (only 1 pulse) or the lighting button.

With your Piko setup, you will have the opportunity to define a loco to the handset as being serial or parallel operation (and 14 or 28 steps). You also need to tell the loco's decoder what to expect in the same way. Both need to be set to parallel to operate in that mode, otherwise they will drop back to serial. Making sure that both are set to the same number of speed steps is vital. If the handset and chip speed step definitions do not match each other, typically you get flickering lights or no control over the lights.

Keep at it. DCC really is worthwhile!

 

[Tim Brien]

I believe that I have 'serial' operation misunderstood. So if one presses F3 once only, then three single pulses are sent. One does not have to press a function button 'three' times to initiate.
Also, I have the chip set to 'serial and parallel' settings. Does this mean the chip will accept both types, or revert to serial only for operation in preference to 'parallel'?

Mohammed,
the LGB software (MTS verion 6) was definately wrong. It did alter some basic CV's. I was very happy with the operation of the Massoth programme. I assume the full reset button is the pencil symbol adjacent to the 'All CV' prompt at the top of the 'General' page on the programme. I did find that CV53 is wrong. I was comparing Massoth CV's, the CV list on the programmer and a list of CV's from a LGB locomotive booklet. Being factory sound then I assume that I cannot alter the function key dedicated to a particular sound. It seems that that the LGB sound board may be 'fixed' rather than if a dedicated sound decoder.

Pity the Massoth decoder instructions were all in German. I find it hard to believe no English translation in the instruction booklet.

 

[stockers]

Please correct me if I am wrong you Massoth dealers. I am understanding that with a direct decoder fit you do not need to reduce the lighting voltage (or the smoke) because the original board continues to do this. Or is this only relevant to the newer boards with no dips?

 

[mbendebba]

pm me and I will send you a copy of the english user's manual.
You only have to press once on a function key, the central station software does the rest. I would not worry right now about altering the function key assignment until you get the decoder to work on the basic issues.
key number 8 on the decoder may be set a factory to cause the loco to go to half speed, do not get concerned about, just press again and it will to go back to normal speed
Mohammed

 

[whatlep]

Pity the Massoth decoder instructions were all in German. I find it hard to believe no English translation in the instruction booklet.

Tim

That surprises me - all the booklets I've ever had have been in both German and English. However, English language versions of all Massoth's documentation are on their website http://www.massoth.de < Link To www.massoth.de under the Download Center (sic).

 

[Tim Brien]

Mohammed,
I downloaded the Massoth 'Configuration' manual and have read the Massoth 'L' manual a few times. The multiple function pads on the decoder are a little confusing as other than the dedicated A3 (servo function), A5 (power buffer) and A6 (pulse generator), I am trying to get my head around what one would use the other functions for, maybe lights?. What does one need really orher than forward, rear and interior lighting? I am not interested in fancy lighting effects.

I do not use smoke function, but is A1 dedicated to smoke on/off? Massoth states A1 and A2 pads are 0.5 amps each but then contradicts and states A2 - A6 are 50 milli amps max load.

I need to get a grip on functions? The Massoth programme is very helpful with its English language 'Help' button, but one has to understand DCC before coming to terms with what they are saying. A German/English translator programme (I put the Google translator on my favourites bar) comes in very handy.

 

[muns]

Tim,

The LGB software works fine if you are programming a LGB decoder as it knows about them all and was designed to detect them and configure them in an easy way. I would not use it for any other make of decoder apart from using the single CV read & write functions.

At the moment (until I have tried the new Massoth beta programming software), I would recommend using nthe CV programmer V1.5 with my english translation of the Massoth definitions with your 55045 interface (avilable on the Massoth english forum: http://massoth.gotdns.com/forumen/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=299 ).

Edit: My first impressions of the new Massoth programming software is good but as of yet I havn't tried it in anger connected to my 55045, Massoth PC module or my 1200Z.

The Ax outputs on Massoth decoders are all generic, some allow special functions, i.e. A3 is the only output that "can" be used to drive a servo and A5 is the only output that "can" be used to control the charging of a power buffer.

 

[mbendebba]

Allan: As a matter of habit , I allways, set the cv values first at 7 and then test. If every thing works as expected, I leave it at that. If not, I increase the values first to 16 than to 32.

 

[mbendebba]

Tim: why can't you connect the front and rear lights directly to their corresponding pins on the decoder as per diagram in the manual. You would need to terminate the wires from your lights with the crimp-on connectors that came with the decoder.

 

[Tim Brien]

Mohammed,
as a direct decoder install the four light pins (only three used on the LGB board) are inserted into the receptacles on the LGB board. This then powers the front/rear lights using the stock LGB board plus smoke taken direct from the board. The rear light receptacle on the LGB board is shared with the interior light wiring on another part of the board. No doubt I am telling you what you already know. Thus the only visible part of the pin is its tail where it is soldered through the decoder board.

When I realised a problem with the analogue part of the board for the front lights, I bypassed the front light pins on the board and wired direct to the tails of the 'Lf' and 'D+' pins where their tails protuded through the decoder board. This solved the issue with the stock front light pins shorting out the rear lights. As stated earlier, in analogue with decoder removed and DIP switches in 'on' position, front lights were not illuminated and when removed rear lights would work in reverse. In forward no lights illuminated. Frony light circuit board was checked for continuity. Problem is in the forward light circuit in the LGB board. By wiring front lights directly to decoder pin tails, solved the problem.

 

[mbendebba]

Tim: In which LGB loco are you installing the decoder?
Mohammed

 

[Tim Brien]

Mohammed,
Zillertalbahn #20705 from the Zillertalbahn Samler collector set from early 2000's. Loco is Raimund #1. It was the only 'U' lok fitted with factory sound (supposedly).

 

[Woderwick]

A change from Annies then Tim, you still doing them ?

 

[Tim Brien]

Rod,
Annies are still happening, but taking a little sabbatical away from them. I have a Mastadon ready to paint, a Hudson that is about half done and a Southern Pacific 4-6-0 #18 awaiting a drive to finish off. The whaleback tender is complete, awaiting decals to finish.

 

[mbendebba]

Hello Tim:
The rear lights cable is 5 wires, correct.?

 

[Tim Brien]

Mohammed,
the five wire cable is to the control switch on the firebox. The rear lights are four wires only.