Strange results with Massoth decoder reading CV 29

[Airbuspilot]

CV1 should indeed have reverted to 3 on a reset, I am as baffled as you now. Pity you are not close to where I live as we could have tried doing things on my old LGB Parallel set up that I retain for just updating CV’s on my older LGB lokies.

Phil may have found the problem, I need to try again. Long time since I was in Cambridge but should you or anyone pass by Paphos there is always a glass of wine for anyone who understands DCC and doesn’t want to sit on the beach.

Robin

 

[Loco]

I have the LGB 28435 which also is a RhB Ge 4/4 II locomotive which was produced about the same time (around 2010/2011) as the one you are working on (LGB 28434). The only difference I know of between these two locmotives is the two black cables for track connection between the LGB onboard decoder to the sound decoder, the one I have is without these two cables (see attached picture). When reading CVs from my locomotive the switch in the cab has to be set to "2" (no sound), otherwise I get occational garbage in return when reading CVs.

According to a German forum these two cables between the LGB onboard decoder and the sound decoder are for programming the sound decoder. I don't know how to avoid the LGB onboard decoder interfering in programming the sound decoder, and I don't have any information for CVs of the sound decoder if I even wished to program this decoder. The manual is of no help. Anyway, this is probably irrelevant for your issue until you resolve programming the LGB onboard decoder first.

Based on this I would recommend:
1) Follow the advice of Mark and Greg => disconnect the two black track connection cables from the LGB onboard decoder to the sound decoder
2) Set the switch in the cab to "2" to eliminate sound, set it back to "3" after reading/writing CVs (NB! remember that the switch positions are numbered from "0" to "3", i.e. 4 positions total

 

[Greg Elmassian]

read up on decoder lock, this is the way the pros do it. you can lock the motor decoder and that should allow commands to affect only the sound decoder, but I will admit have not tried it in this configuration.

The question is, when the motor decoder is locked, and with both the decoders connected to the rails, will the system react properly to "service mode"?

Clearly it will work with POM, but I don't know about service mode.

This is why I normally put 2 switches in some installations, each one disables one decoder. No fuss no muss, and very easy for the operator to understand (of course you label the switches ha ha!)

Greg

 

[PhilP]

Does the sound decoder definitely have track power?

If it is being fed power/commands via SUSI, then the sound CV's will be much higher numbers, and would be 'passed-through' to the sound decoder.

If the sound decoder was turned off, then the reset should have set the address of the (driving) decoder to decimal '3'.
If this did not happen, then the decoder could be locked.

PhilP

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Good call, looking at the picture more carefully, the sound decoder has a 2 wire interface that plugs into the main board, assume it is power of some sort, but maybe not track power.

More importantly, look at the red SUSI plug on the main board, it appears to go to the sound boards, and that could easily be SUSI.

Curiouser and curiouser

Greg

 

[Loco]

The two pins in the center of the LGB onboard decoder are track power.

The red plug is LGB sound, 4 pins (Txd, Rxd, + and -). SUSI is also 4 pins but labeled: Data, Clock, + and -.

The LGB oboard decoder and the sound decoder have no documented CVs for programming lock.

 

[Airbuspilot]

I made another attempt to reset to factory settings. Sound is OFF by switch in cab, CV 55 set to 55 and reads 55 after programming, prior to my first try it read 0.
As before CV1 reads 8 and long address still shows 194/107, the only change is CV 5 which was 32 and is now 160.

Second try with CV 55 had same result.

I opened the Loco and disconnected the two wires connecting the boards then tried again with exactly the same result, so I guess the revert to factory setting doesn’t work.

Robin

 

[Loco]

Ok, so reset doesn't work.

Are you able to change a CV and consistently read back the value you have programmed?

 

[Airbuspilot]

Ok, so reset doesn't work.

Are you able to change a CV and consistently read back the value you have programmed?

So far yes, not a large number of tries but each time I try the read back is correct.
Robin

 

[Airbuspilot]

Looking at Stockers explanation of Masoth CV's he sates :-

Consult your documentation - these details are the ones that seem to change from month to month.
My XLS book says there are 5 options and then lists 6!

Value 55 - reset basic settings
Value 66 - reset motor setting
Value 77 - reset lights and functions
Value 111 - reset CVs 131 to 167
Value 122 - reset Cvs 171 to 199
Value 133 - reset CVs 200 to 212

Next time I am working on the railway I will try setting CV 55 to 77, might have an effect?

I thought the standard reset was CV 8 to 8, this presumably isn't the case for many decoders?

Robin

 

[PhilP]

Although made by Massoth, you have a LGB decoder..
There are obviously common CV's across all decoders, but others vary.

If you reset the functions and lights, the lighting outputs (and other function outputs) will revert to full track voltage. Other function outputs will also revert to their default control settings. - Button '2' will control function output 2,for example.

It would be worth getting a hard-copy of all the present CV values before doing any resets.

PhilP

 

[Greg Elmassian]

I echo PhipP's comments, reset may not be the panacea you are looking for.

Getting at proper table of the correct CVs is where I would go.

Also, in the near time frame, if the lamps have their "voltage" controlled by CV settings, I would disconnect them so they do not accidentally get blown out by over voltage.

Greg

 

[Airbuspilot]

Thanks Phil, Greg

I think I have reached the limit of my current knowledge / skill with this Loco.

It runs well, I have no lights or other functions and the sound is now turned OFF. Probably safest to leave it that way until i know more, I don’t want to mess up something which doesn’t belong to me.

Thanks to everyone for your help, my over all knowledge is improving which is largely due to this forum.

Robin

 

[gman1]

Howdy G scalers...this thread has been a great read as I also have a LGB 28434 and I'm trying to reset the decoder so I can undo the sound function maps that I've messed up. I can't bring F4 (male conductor voice) back. For a factory reset, the 28434 locomotive manual says set CV55=55. I use an NCE system and I've been able to change other CVs using the NCE paging programming mode. After I try the reset, I shut down the power from the entire system, wait a few seconds, then power back up. This does not seem to be working. Checking CV55...is still has 55...it did not appear to reset. I then tried CV55=77 and turned the sound off using the switch in the loco's cab. Does anyone have a step by step for the propoer sequence for full reset success? Thank you all. Greg M.

 

[LGB333]

Howdy G scalers...this thread has been a great read as I also have a LGB 28434 and I'm trying to reset the decoder so I can undo the sound function maps that I've messed up. I can't bring F4 (male conductor voice) back. For a factory reset, the 28434 locomotive manual says set CV55=55. I use an NCE system and I've been able to change other CVs using the NCE paging programming mode. After I try the reset, I shut down the power from the entire system, wait a few seconds, then power back up. This does not seem to be working. Checking CV55...is still has 55...it did not appear to reset. I then tried CV55=77 and turned the sound off using the switch in the loco's cab. Does anyone have a step by step for the propoer sequence for full reset success? Thank you all. Greg M.

I'm not familiar with the NCE DCC system, but the CV55=55 decoder reset should work if you're using Service Mode on a programming track and not Operations Mode (Programming on the Main). I don't see in the User Guide an option to use CV55=77? I'd suggest you contact the Massoth Technical Service with your issue since Massoth produced the decoder for Marklin for your locomotive model: hotline@massoth.de Frank Noller there is very helpful and knowledgeable.

 

[LGB333]

I'm not familiar with the NCE DCC system, but the CV55=55 decoder reset should work if you're using Service Mode on a programming track and not Operations Mode (Programming on the Main). I don't see in the User Guide an option to use CV55=77? I'd suggest you contact the Massoth Technical Service with your issue since Massoth produced the decoder for Marklin for your locomotive model: hotline@massoth.de Frank Noller there is very helpful and knowledgeable.

I've also had challenges sometimes trying to program LGB locomotives with these Onboard decoders installed. I've sent an email to Frank Noller at the Massoth Hotline asking some basic questions about programming these type Onboard sound decoders. I'll share the response I receive.

Also note that for Massoth's currently produced DCC decoders, there is a notice in their User Guides that some non-Massoth DCC command stations may not provide the required current for programming: Massoth XLS Configuration Manual "3.2 Programming with Other Central Stations. Other central stations may not deliver the rquired current for programming. This may be caused by an overload protection which cuts in too early. For that reason a 470Ohms resistor is required in-line in the connection to the programming track when using a Lenz central station." I've had hobbyists contact me that they couldn't get the programming the Massoth DCC sound decoder I installed in their LGB locomotive to work properly using their NEC DCC system; but then using a Massoth or Piko command station did program the CVs.

 

[LGB333]

Here are the questions I sent to the Massoth Hotline/Frank Noller about the Massoth-produced Onboard DCC sound decoders.
Questions:

1. Can these Onboard sound decoders’ sound files be reinstalled, or a different sound file installed, using a Massoth PC Programming Module?
2. What is the best method to program these Onboard sound decoders: Massoth PC Programming Module or a DCC command station’s Service Mode Programming Track?
3. Is it best to turn off the sound on the locomotive’s Power Switch when programming the decoder’s CVs?
4. The poster states he tried to do some sound function re-mapping on the Onboard sound decoder………is that possible with these decoders?

Here are his responses.
The LGB sound module can only be reprogrammed to factory settings because it is the last generation of electronics. See Appendix. To do this you have to

it with the two-pin cable on the pin headers of the sound module

decoder must be connected (track). CV55=55. Only these can be programmed

and sound can be assigned to other keys. These correspond

then our CV’s. You couldn't use any other sound modules

program. But since LGB on most locomotives the two-pole cable

These modules cannot be programmed either. Because that wasn't what was wanted at the time. Therefore, I would advise against it.

 

[LGB333]

Here is Frank Noller's follow up reply in English........I had used the Google translater to convert the first reply to English.

Sorry est had replied again in German. the LGB sound module can only be

reprogrammed to factory settings, which is the last generation of

electronics. See Appendix. To do this, it must be connected to the

decoders (track) using the two-pin cables on the headers of the sound

module. CV55=55. Only these can be programmed and sound mapped to other

keys. These then correspond to our CV's. All other sound modules could

not be programmed. But since LGB did not use the two-pin cable on most

locomotives, these modules cannot be programmed either. Because that

wasn't what was wanted at the time. Therefore, I would advise against

it. The customer has also contacted us. I gave him the following tip.

But try CV133=4. Try it via the programming track or also via POM. Maybe

this will help you. Give yourself the CV list.

 

[gman1]

Thank you very much for this translation. I did reach out to Frank too and he sent me a very similar message. Setting CV133=4 using 'programming on main" is the answer. It worked. It did not work using the programming track for some reason. I used my standard NCE system PowerPro at my workbench and the decoder is now playing all the factory sounds. The decoder is fully functional again. Thank you to you all. I am all set.

Kind regards,
Greg M.