SPROG/DecoderPro and MTS

PartTimer

PartTimer

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While scouring this forum on Sunday in search of help with LGB CV programming, I came across a lot of references to SPROG, JMRI and DecoderPro, so I looked them up. To me, it seems I should be able to use a SPROG interface and the DecoderPro software on my MacBook Pro to program the decoders in my system.

There are four locomotives, two Moguls and two Forneys. Sorry, but I do not have the model numbers handy, although the Moguls are identical B&O #419 sets from about 6 years ago and one of the Forneys was purchased about a year later. The other Forney is an "antique" which pre-dates my taking over the setup (see my post in new members for background) and was the first locomotive we converted to DCC. Two of our decoders are LGB 55021, one is a Massoth XL and the other is a Digitraxx DG583S. The system is running on a 55005p MTS II Central Station.

Keeping in mind that I am an above-average computer user, have been working with Macs since 1987, am used to Open Source software, and have a pretty good knowledge of electrics and electronics, does anyone know of:

1) Reasons why this setup won't work; or
2) Issues I might or will encounter and how to resolve them; or
3) A better idea.

I need to be able to program all of our current decoders as well as any we may add in the future. Cost and availability are factors -- SPROG USA is based in Beaverton, Oregon, about a 3-hour drive from me, and my local train shop currently has both models in stock.

Thanks in advance,

Terry
 
Do you intend to start fitting sound decoders?
If so, do you want to be able to programme them / load sounds your self?

Most manufacturers seem to have a proprietary system to load the sound-files into their decoders, so if you want sound, possibly better to standardise on one make of sound decoder. - You will most likely need that manufacturers interface device to go between your computer and the decoder.
NOTE:
Most (if not all) manufacturers have 'PC' interfaces, but not Mac.. You may be able to use Parallels, you may not.

The SPROG etc. will allow you to read / write CV's to those decoders it has templates for. - Most of the 'names' and a few minor manufacturers are supported.

As to your specific equipment:

The 55021 decoder is very old, originally by Lenz, and (amongst other things) has a very low frequency PWM motor output (from memory, 75Hz??). This sounds nasty on many motors.

The MTS II may gibe you problems with the newest decoders.. 'Features' are beginning to appear with the most up to date decoders not doing what you expect. There appear to be other strange effects with certain decoders.

The Massoth XL is current, so should not give you any problems.

Although I use a Digitrax Central Station, I do not have any experience with their decoders, so am unable to comment.

HTH,
PHilP.
 
I think the creaky beaver on here uses his Mac with DecoderPro and the SPROG and will know more than I, but I think this combination should work just fine.

Most retailers will load whatever sound files you want into sound decoders for free if you get the decoder from them. Personally I wouldn't bother getting the manufacturer programmer that can also load sound files, unless you also intend to develop your own sound projects.
 
I use a Sprog II on a Mac, without any problems - it seems to handle everything I need to do (primarily on Massoth decoders).
The only thing I would say is to follow all the instructions exactly when setting it up on a Mac - I had a supposedly very tech-savvy friend to help me set mine up, and the only problems we had were when he thought he knew better than the people who had written the instructions.... ;)

PhilP: I think your comments about the 55021 decoder may actually refer to the older 55020? That was indeed a Lenz-made decoder and is now pretty much obsolete, but the 55021 is (as far as I understand) a Massoth-designed unit basically equivalent to Massoth's own eMotion L..... though not exactly cutting-edge tech now, the 55021 is still a perfectly serviceable piece of kit, whereas the older 55020 really shouldn't be considered now.

Jon.
 
I use a SPROG II and now a SPROG III (the only difference is that the SPROG III can handle 3 amps so that you can 'test' the decoder in a loco that draws more than the 1 amp that a SPROG II can take).
I have used it on a Mac and also on Windows (through the 'Parallels' emulator on the Mac)

It works great with all decoders.... BUT...I have found problems with Massoth sound decoders when trying to 'adjust' the sound parameters. It can do it but sometimes it does give some strange results.
Other makes of sound decoders seem to be fine (QSI, ESU, Deitz etc).

I have a SPROG II for sale........... :D
 
The Sprog should work just fine. Its not exactly ' plug and play' but you have said your used to computers so it should be no trouble - just follow the instructions and its straight forward.
Mine works fine. It takes a bit of practice to sort out locos with separate sound decoders and driving decoders but you'll get there.
 
My mistake on the 55021 front.. Was confusing it with the older 55020.. ::)

My concern with the SPROG is its' age, and the (seeming) lack of development?? - I did look to get one about a year ago, but was told they did not have the parts to make any more at the time ?? (just what I was told, have not pursued it further since..)
 
PhilP said:
My mistake on the 55021 front.. Was confusing it with the older 55020.. ::)

My concern with the SPROG is its' age, and the (seeming) lack of development?? - I did look to get one about a year ago, but was told they did not have the parts to make any more at the time ?? (just what I was told, have not pursued it further since..)
Click to expand...

Although the SPROG II has been about for a while, the newer Sprog III (higher amps handling for 'command station' operation) is in effect the same thing but with slightly newer firmware etc. The JMRI software is constantly under development so that it is bang up to date.
I have found it a great little tool and, as I sort of refuse to get into the CV language in any great depth, it is ideal as it gives the option of changing CVs directly or using the GUI interface to see what the parameters really are and then to change values in a 'real world' scenario.
It also then allows you to immediately 'test' your loco and see how the changes have affected the running and then to immediately get back to the programming mode if you wish.
I recommend the higher amp handling SPROG III as this will allow even USAT locos to be programmed and tested.

My only problem has been with Massoth sound enabled decoders. For some reason the Sprog does not initially read the type of decoder and then can, at odd times, have issues when programming the sounds.
 
Thanks for all the responses. The information you have all provided is extremely helpful and should help persuade the folks with the money to let me go ahead with this. My choice would be to buy the SPROG 3, as it would give us an emergency back up in case the LGB system were to fail catastrophically.

At present we have no functioning sound decoders, so that is not a pressing need. It is my hope to have the budget to replace the MTS system in the next two or three years, presuming it lasts that long -- it was purchased just before LGB went into receivership. If, or when, that happens, I will be looking at a comprehensive system from a single vendor. The reason we have a Massoth decoder is that we could not get an LGB to replace one which died, and we have a Digitraxx because my local repair shop won't deal with Massoth USA.

Terry
 
Terry
Just to add to my previous post
You will need to buy a 3 or 3.5 amp, 18 to 19V power supply.
I found a lot on ebay.
An HP 3.5A 18V laptop power supply is ideal and can be found for less than a tenner.
 
PhilP said:
My concern with the SPROG is its' age, and the (seeming) lack of development?? - I did look to get one about a year ago, but was told they did not have the parts to make any more at the time ?? (just what I was told, have not pursued it further since..)
Click to expand...

As the creaky beaver says, the SPROG is still very much alive and well and has more been recently developed as a higher power version to improve it's command-station capabilities, and the JMRI software is continually being updated. Andrew Crossland the SPROG designer is active on the JMRI and DCC yahoo groups I also belong to. Hardware and firmware-wise the SPROG hasn't had to change very much as the requirements for programming decoders are standardised, until you get into proprietary mechanisms for downloading files on to sound decoders etc. - that's where you tend to need the manufacturer's own device. I still use an old serial port SPROG.

Don't forget, JMRI software does more than just decoder programming, works on far more than just the SPROG (though unfortunately not with MTS/Massoth systems), and other software could be made to work with the SPROG hardware if the market wanted it. I wrote my own simple SPROG throttle program in Visual Basic years ago just for fun!

I certainly recommend getting a SPROG.
 
You will need to buy a 3 or 3.5 amp, 18 to 19V power supply.

In the US, the SPROG interfaces are shipped with an appropriate power supply, already been wired to the multi-pin connector. Which simply saves me the time need to sort through my bin of power supplies, or going to the the local used computer/electronics store and digging through their bins.

The train store we use for service and almost all purchases is a SPROG retailer, but the repair tech I deal with there surprised me by not actually knowing a whole lot about them. I think this is the first time I've ever been better informed than he has. Our relationship with them over the years has been great. We bring our locomotives to them in early January for service and they get them back by the beginning of November. If we need a repair during our operating season they typically get it turned around in a day, as long as they have the parts on hand.
 
PartTimer said:
... We bring our locomotives to them in early January for service and they get them back by the beginning of November...
Click to expand...

It takes 11 months for them to repair a locomotive??? :(

That seems to be a bit long.
 
Railfan said:
It takes 11 months for them to repair a locomotive??? :(
Click to expand...
Read first post, the locos are not required outside of a narrow window. So it's probably a convenient arrangement. Mind you my battery loco has been back 3 times to a certain shop to be fixed. First time 5 months till returned....not fixed. Max.
 
maxi-model said:
Read first post, the locos are not required outside of a narrow window. So it's probably a convenient arrangement. Mind you my battery loco has been back 3 times to a certain shop to be fixed. First time 5 months till returned....not fixed. Max.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. I guess that I missed that. Did your battery loco ever get repaired?
 
Hi All,

Here we are almost a year later and I thought post an update.

I got approval to purchase a SPROG 3 in March, and before sending our locomotives in for their annual servicing, I uploaded the decoder information from them to my laptop. What a laughably simple process that was. Sadly, it seems the roster file I created has disappeared from my computer and so I've had to make a new one. I have upgraded to the latest version of DecoderPro and as of now three of the four locomotives are working just fine. The last one is being temperamental and I almost hope it turns out to be a bad decoder, rather than a programming error, which is much more likely.

Thanks for all of your input last year, it made a big difference when it came to pitching this purchase.

Terry
 
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