Sound/Battery/Wireless Control Primer

[Steve Seidensticker]

Happy New Year everyone! The attached PDF is a distillation of five years experience installing batteries, sound decoders, and control systems into G and O scale locos. It explains some of the issues involved and provides some guidance to those considering on board power and wireless control. It concludes with a section on tips and links to four YouTube videos of typical installations.

Enjoy! Hope you find the info useful. Questions, comments, and suggestions are most welcome.

Steve Seidensticker

 

[JimmyB]

Read with interest, but how do you balance charge your batteries, as the jack plug will not facilitate that.

 

[dunnyrail]

Read with interest, but how do you balance charge your batteries, as the jack plug will not facilitate that.

Yes that is a real worry particularly with a commercial deal. I sincerely suggest he has a look at what can occur with non balanced charging, plenty of YouTube vids to show the error of ones ways if not careful.

However on the positive side a lot of good information in here, batteries excluded of course.

 

[PhilP]

Early (as in what we could get) 'protection boards', were just that.. They would stop you damaging the pack by over-discharge of a single cell, and the pack as a whole, but not much else!
Later, current-limit was added, but more to protect the components of the board, and the limits are way too much, to protect our electronics etc.

You can now get BMS (Battery Management System) boards, which also manage the balance element of charging, etc.
The problem is identifying if a board is 'protection' or 'BMS'. Quite often the only way to tell, is by the chip-set being used, and specifications given for the board.

If you buy a 'branded' commercial multi-cell pack, and it does not have a balance lead, then you can probably assume it has a BMS board fitted. *

*This is for bigger capacity packs..
The small packs (usually sold in multiples) used in mini-drones, often do not have any protection. This is to save weight (and cost, probably).

PhilP

 

[JimmyB]

Early (as in what we could get) 'protection boards', were just that.. They would stop you damaging the pack by over-discharge of a single cell, and the pack as a whole, but not much else!
Later, current-limit was added, but more to protect the components of the board, and the limits are way too much, to protect our electronics etc.

You can now get BMS (Battery Management System) boards, which also manage the balance element of charging, etc.
The problem is identifying if a board is 'protection' or 'BMS'. Quite often the only way to tell, is by the chip-set being used, and specifications given for the board.

If you buy a 'branded' commercial multi-cell pack, and it does not have a balance lead, then you can probably assume it has a BMS board fitted. *

*This is for bigger capacity packs..
The small packs (usually sold in multiples) used in mini-drones, often do not have any protection. This is to save weight (and cost, probably).

PhilP

Having bought both LiPo and Li Ion, LiPo do not generally come with any type of on board protection, which has been part of my reasoning to move to Li Ion batteries with BMS.

 

[Moonraker]

A well written review but it contains two major flaws.

First Tam Valley are no longer making any of their products which are mentioned.

Secondly it ignores the fact that there is a much simpler and lower cost method of implementing sound-battery-wireless. DCC is good and can produce some nice results but only if you have the patience to learn how it works. CVs (control variables) are a jungle of numbers which make programming difficult for the inexperienced and even more so when you can't read the current values. In contrast, a conventional analogue radio control plus a MyLocoSound soundcard will give you the same remote control and a range of recorded sounds but in a much simpler way. A TV remote control (which everyone can operate) is used for programming with simple audio feedback. And an analogue system will work out at about half the price of an equivalent DCC system.

Regards
Peter Lucas
MyLocoSound

 

[FatherMcD]

Happy New Year everyone! The attached PDF is a distillation of five years experience installing batteries, sound decoders, and control systems into G and O scale locos. It explains some of the issues involved and provides some guidance to those considering on board power and wireless control. It concludes with a section on tips and links to four YouTube videos of typical installations.

Enjoy! Hope you find the info useful. Questions, comments, and suggestions are most welcome.

Steve Seidensticker

Steve, do you have a source for the 3-pin connectors you show for O/HO installs? I haven't been able to find them on eBay. (Perhaps I'm just not recognizing them.)

 

[GAP]

Steve, do you have a source for the 3-pin connectors you show for O/HO installs? I haven't been able to find them on eBay. (Perhaps I'm just not recognizing them.)

You can make your own by cutting up these relatively inexpensive Round IC sockets that's what I do

DIP Round IC Sockets Solder Type gold plated 6/8/14/16/18/20/24/28/32/40Pin | eBay

1.6/8/14/16/18/20/24/28/32/40P Specification: IC Sockets DIP-6P 40P Pin Round Adaptor Solder Gold Plated Narrow/WIDE 2.66pcs IC SOCKET KITS Specification Use: DIP IC Socket. 18 x 6 pins-DIP IC Sockets.

www.ebay.com.au

 

[Steve Seidensticker]

First Tam Valley are no longer making any of their products which are mentioned.

This is not quite correct. Tam Valley is making both the DRS1 receiver and the BlueRailDCC receiver. Both of these boards are distributed by Dead Rail Installs and that may have led to some confusion.

Having said that, production of the BlueRail board was suspended for awhile because TV could not get one of the key chips due to the supply chain problems. However, those chips are again being delivered and production of the BlueRailDCC board has restarted.

I know this to be true because I have lunch at least once a week with Duncan McRee, head of Tam Valley, and am in frequent contact with Pete Steinmetz, head of Dead Rail Installs.

Steve Seidensticker

 

[Steve Seidensticker]

Secondly it ignores the fact that there is a much simpler and lower cost method of implementing sound-battery-wireless.

Hi Peter,

Forgive me, I did not mean to slight MyLocoSound in the document. It's just that I do not have any experience with MyLocoSound. From what I have heard MyLocoSound has an excellent reputation. I note from your web site that it is compatible with BlueRailDCC. There is room for all of us in this business. And there are many ways to skin this cat.

Steve

 

[Steve Seidensticker]

Steve, do you have a source for the 3-pin connectors you show for O/HO installs? I haven't been able to find them on eBay. (Perhaps I'm just not recognizing them.)

0.1" header pins and IC sockets out of any electronics scrap box will do. But if you or a friend don't have one here is a MicroMark source <32-pin Micro Connector Set> . Just clip off what you need,

Steve

 

[GAP]

Perhaps disclaimer for business people posting on here is in order.

 

[PhilP]

0.1" header pins and IC sockets out of any electronics scrap box will do. But if you or a friend don't have one here is a MicroMark source <32-pin Micro Connector Set> . Just clip off what you need,

Steve

Pedant mode:
It is just a pity, they show a picture with the male pin-strip, the wrong way round..

PhilP

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Perhaps disclaimer for business people posting on here is in order.

I have seen lots of posts from people who own businesses here, have not seen disclaimers, is that because they have been posting for a long time and "everyone knows"?

Personal opinion, setting rules for people posting who have a "vested interest" is always a slippery slope. Again personal opinion is that it should be in their signature, i.e. the business link/reference, no matter how "tiny".

But again a slippery slope.

Greg

 

[GAP]

I have seen lots of posts from people who own businesses here, have not seen disclaimers, is that because they have been posting for a long time and "everyone knows"?

Personal opinion, setting rules for people posting who have a "vested interest" is always a slippery slope. Again personal opinion is that it should be in their signature, i.e. the business link/reference, no matter how "tiny".

But again a slippery slope.

Greg

Not setting rules just some form of identification in the signature per example of Moonkraker's in post #6.

 

[JimmyB]

Not setting rules just some form of identification in the signature per example of Moonkraker's in post #6.

Professional courtesy if you are posting as part of your business, or promoting your business. However, not necessarily so if posting as forum member , just my opinion

 

[GAP]

Professional courtesy if you are posting as part of your business, or promoting your business. However, not necessarily so if posting as forum member , just my opinion

That was what I was aiming for just could think of the words.

 

[Rhinochugger]

I have seen lots of posts from people who own businesses here, have not seen disclaimers, is that because they have been posting for a long time and "everyone knows"?

Personal opinion, setting rules for people posting who have a "vested interest" is always a slippery slope. Again personal opinion is that it should be in their signature, i.e. the business link/reference, no matter how "tiny".

But again a slippery slope.

Greg

Yes, agreed, a tricky one.

Peter Lucas (Moonraker) carefully covers it in his signature block - which seems to me to be a good example to follow

 

[Greg Elmassian]

Steve is part owner of Bluerail which is featured in the document as I understand.

I am asking since the document is oriented towards a specific technology and brand, r/c systems using a DCC decoder, and highlighting Bluerail.

Now, I personally think this is the way of the future, (using DCC decoders) because of the ready and wide availability of DCC sound decoders, but it is not a generic install for non-DCC r/c systems, or a generic how to install battery.

Witness all the cool components Tony Walsham has made for battery installs over the years, and I must apologize that I am not more familiar with our friends in the UK's offerings.

Steve has asked to put this as an article in our club newsletter, and I'm thinking we (the club) need to preface this as one way to do it, it is not a generic how to do battery as titled, but how to do one type of install. It is not an endorsement of a particular product or technology.

I'm sure MoonRaker will agree that there are many ways to do R/C and sound that do not involve DCC.

Greg

 

[JimmyB]

So as GAP says retailers should introduce them selves as such when posting, as opposed to a generic post.