Sound and battery conversion for a Bachmann 2-6-6-2

maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
4,693
225
Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
I'm starting to get the taste for sound and battery conversions now. So now I'm looking at converting one of my logging "fleet" - the Bachmann Fn3 Spectrum 2-6-6-2.

OK, I think I am going for a Phoenix P8, they do a nice Unita Mallet sound for it and there is one available from stock from a retailer of my acquaintance. Phoenix say on their site the P8 was designed for battery/rc use but how and why they do not elaborate. There is also mention of the dreaded (to me) DCC acronym. I take it as the P8 is intended for battery/rc use we are not looking at any problems with PWM output from the ESC causing issues with the sound card. I already have a Fosworks Omni 2 transmitter so I'm thinking of binding one of their receivers to that and plugging in the ESC. Then it's a split battery pack installed in the side tanks to power it all,

I've found a thread on another forum with links to other installations on the same loco. Though great for the general principles they do not really give me the specific information to give me the confidence to proceed by myself. I've had a cursory look at the Bachmann loco's diagrams but they do not give a by numbers installation guide, just some mumbo jumbo about plug and play boards and likewise Phoenix talk a lot about using DCC/rc gear that adheres to NMRA standards. Not really confidence inspiring to a numpty like me. So to start the ball rolling -

What sounds and sequences can I access in a simple rc environment using, say, Fosworks non DCC ESC and receiver and existing Omni2 equipment or must I have DCC and how does that work in a battery r/c environment ? My only experience till now is an old Soundtraxx Sierra card with its set of voltage activated sequences and a couple of sounds activated by pico switches.

Looking at the Bachmann diagrams there seems to be a board with both 18v power inputs, 6v chuff triggers and a speaker output. Can these be simply attached to the ESC for motor control and as the chuff triggers and sound output on the sound card ?

I take it once you have installed your kit all you have to do is flick the switch over to battery on the board on top of the boiler to switch out the track pick ups and rely on the batteries and ESC. I also have an extra board with lots of pins but I know not what it has to do in the great scheme of things but I suspect DCC has something to do with it.

As usual you advice and sympathies would be most welcome. Max
 
Neil Robinson

Neil Robinson

Registered
24 Oct 2009
9,414
85
N W Leicestershire
I've done a Phoenix sound and NCE chip DCC installation in one of these. I chose to scrap the Bachmann main board but use the existing chuff sensors. My best advice is to email Phoenix with any specific questions. I did and found them most helpful.

One thing I can clear up is "Phoenix say on their site the P8 was designed for battery/rc use but how and why they do not elaborate". Phoenix systems with a B in the prefix, e.g PB 11 or PB 17 include a battery and battery charger to provide sufficient power for standing and slow speed (i.e. low track voltage) with analog track powered locos. With DCC or R/C this isn't needed hence the non battery plus charger versions such as P8 that are are a little cheaper.
There's no problem using a battery version without a battery plugged in should you wish to use a second hand unit obtained at a good price in a DCC or R/C loco
 
Tony Walsham

Tony Walsham

Manufacturer of RCS Radio Control.
25 Oct 2009
2,125
25
Casino, NSW
You might find these useful showing how to pull the loco apart.
Large Scale Central - Advanced Forum Detail Topic - Bachmann 2-6-6-2T Mallet gets RCS battery R/C and Phoenix P8 sou
Large Scale Central - Advanced Forum Detail Topic - Bachmann 2-6-6-2T plus RCS. Take 3.
I rarely, if ever, find it necessary to gut locos when installing battery R/C.
Others have not been so lucky.
I used to carry Phoenix sound but no longer do so. Connecting motor(s) and sound triggers to an ESC is quite straightforward.
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
27 Oct 2009
4,693
225
Bucks/Oxon/Northants area
You might find these useful showing how to pull the loco apart.
Large Scale Central - Advanced Forum Detail Topic - Bachmann 2-6-6-2T Mallet gets RCS battery R/C and Phoenix P8 sou
Large Scale Central - Advanced Forum Detail Topic - Bachmann 2-6-6-2T plus RCS. Take 3.
I rarely, if ever, find it necessary to gut locos when installing battery R/C.
Others have not been so lucky.
I used to carry Phoenix sound but no longer do so. Connecting motor(s) and sound triggers to an ESC is quite straightforward.
Yes, Tony it was these installations I was looking at. However while great at showing the layout and disposition of various component parts of the installation what I could not work out was how you were plumbing in the batteries, speaker and chuff sensors to the 2-6-6-2 - Are you using the stock points on the board I mentioned in the 2-6-6-2 shown in their schematics ? Or some other means as Neil seems to say he's ripping out that board.

What I also need to know is how much of the functionality of the P8 can I access without going the DCC/RC battery route so I can retain the use of my existing Omni 2 - makes a big difference to the budget aspect. Max
 
Tony Walsham

Tony Walsham

Manufacturer of RCS Radio Control.
25 Oct 2009
2,125
25
Casino, NSW
Max.
There are about a dozen sound functions available with the DCC part of a P8 sound system.
The same sound card can access 4/5 triggers with the non DCC part.
Be sure and turn OFF all DCC triggers and functions before connecting any Omni triggers. Otherwise you may get inadvertent sound operations.
I hooked up the stock Bachmann chuff timers to the connections on their pcb. They are clearly marked.
 
dunnyrail

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
25 Oct 2009
15,753
784
71
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
One of my Railcars was fitted up with a Phoenix Sound Card yonks ago, I drive it from a Aristo Crest Revolution Battery System the earlier variety without sound. Whether the ‘Trigers’ from Fosworks will be OK cannot say. Suggest you ask Steve, sure he will have tried a Phoenix Sound Card.

The Manual is quite comprehensive for the Phoenix showing sample diagrams for varying RC Control Systems, all US of course though that may have changed a little by now. Mine is a pretty long time ago installation. You may not remember when I was at Alan Regan’s Open day a year or two ago the very Railcar I am talking about was doing some circuits and acting as Station Pilot. I have managed to get 4 of the Phoenix on demand Sounds out of the Revolution. I think Fosworks May be limited to 3.

Here are a couple of extracts from the Manual, plus my own notes and wiring diagrams if you find them of help. If you run into any issues you are always welcome over to St.Neots and I can take the lid off the Railcar to show you what I have done.
36C6A281-82A5-448C-8E7A-607BF46606B2.jpeg
1F84907B-C35F-4151-A39F-3C1913ACF705.jpeg
B388BE0E-CCA8-42C7-98C8-B2E2A4B45797.jpeg
B97E62D9-7BC7-499F-8E72-0971467621DD.jpeg
4B7B5678-2B14-4F6A-BC49-CF7150D1C685.jpeg
 
PhilP

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
24,377
824
Tamworth, Staffs.
There is no problem with Phoenix Sound and RC triggers.

Bachmann 'chuff' may present a problem, as one iteration went positive, rather than negative.
T'was done to death, in a thread earlier this year..