Some beginner help

Welcome to the Forum, Highlander! I think you've got enough of everyone else's two penn'orths without me chipping in; I run live steam and battery power. Have a look through the threads that interest you on here, pinch the ideas you like and decide what you don't want to do, too. Everyone has a slightly different approach.
 
This is what I have done About the Railway, but I am a bit of an outlier being in the land down under.
I am dabbling in the dark arts of raspberry Pi, Picaxe microcontrollers and Arduino with the aid of the dreaded and feared AI.
Automatic feed back of a signal setting to a transmitter would be theorectically possible but how to do it I don't know.

Enter the dark Lord; I put this into Chat GPT, "I have a garden railway that uses 2.4GHz RC system to control loco speed and direction. I would like to be able to change a signal remotely and when it changes the loco speed corresponds accordingly ie at stop it slows to a stop and at clear it accelerates away. Is this possible?"

The all knowing one returned this (bear in mind it is talking about what I use for my electronics)
Yes — it is absolutely possible, and it fits very well with the sort of systems you’ve already been working with
The key idea is to let a signal command influence the throttle input rather than directly cutting power.
Below is a clear, practical way to think about it, from simplest to more advanced.

The basic principle (important)​

Your 2.4 GHz RC system already controls:
  • Speed → throttle channel
  • Direction → direction channel
What you want is:
Signal aspect → modifies throttle behaviour automatically

So instead of: throttle → ESC → motor

You insert a logic layer: Handset throttle → controller → ESC → motor
↑
Signal state

Option 1 – Most practical & flexible (recommended)​

RC receiver + microcontroller in the locomotive

How it works
  • RC receiver goes into a small microcontroller (Arduino Nano / ESP32 / PICAXE).
  • The controller:
    • Reads the throttle channel
    • Knows the current signal state (Stop / Caution / Clear)
    • Outputs a modified throttle signal to the ESC
Behaviour example
  • Signal = STOP
    • Ignore further throttle increases
    • Gradually ramp speed down to zero
  • Signal = CLEAR
    • Allow throttle again
    • Ramp speed up smoothly

✔ Smooth prototypical behaviour
✔ No power interruption
✔ Works with any ESC
✔ Very realistic braking and acceleration

How does the signal talk to the loco?​

You have several choices:

A) RC channel for the signal
  • Use a spare channel on the same transmitter
  • One switch = signal state
  • Receiver already in the loco
Simplest if you have spare channels

B) Separate 2.4 GHz link (ESP-NOW / NRF24 / RC relay)​

  • Signal mast has a small transmitter
  • Loco listens for signal commands
  • Works even with multiple loco
Good if you want trackside signals controlling trains automatically

C) Trackside sensor + wireless command​

  • Signal changes when a train occupies a block
  • That signal broadcasts STOP to approaching trains
This is how full block signalling is done.

Option 2 – No microcontroller (limited but possible)​


RC relay or electronic switch​

You could:
  • Use a relay to:
    • Reduce throttle
    • Switch to a preset low-speed signal
  • Or cut motor power

⚠ Downsides:
  • Abrupt stops
  • No smooth deceleration
  • Feels unrealistic

This is usually not recommended for garden railways.

What most garden railway modellers do​


The modern approach is:
  • Battery + ESC + RC receiver in loco
  • Microcontroller between receiver and ESC
  • Signals send commands wirelessly
  • Throttle is interpreted, not passed straight through
This gives:
  • Smooth braking into a stop signal
  • Automatic restart on clear
  • Speed limits for caution aspects
  • Future expansion (block control, station stops, etc.)

Is this worth doing?​

✔ Yes — and it’s very achievable
✔ It does not require replacing your RC system
✔ It scales nicely from:
  • One signal → one loco
    to
  • Multiple signals → multiple trains

Hardware you would typically need​

In the loco:
  • Existing RC receiver
  • ESC
  • Arduino Nano / ESP32 / PICAXE
  • Optional: voltage regulator
At the signal:
  • Servo or LEDs for aspect
  • Small controller or RC switch
  • Wireless sender (or RC channel)
This should give your grey matter to chew over
Oh and welcome to the forum where everyday is an adventure

Now I am interested in this so maybe another thing to add to the list
 
GAP said:
This is what I have done About the Railway, but I am a bit of an outlier being in the land down under.
I am dabbling in the dark arts of raspberry Pi, Picaxe microcontrollers and Arduino with the aid of the dreaded and feared AI.
Automatic feed back of a signal setting to a transmitter would be theorectically possible but how to do it I don't know.

Enter the dark Lord; I put this into Chat GPT, "I have a garden railway that uses 2.4GHz RC system to control loco speed and direction. I would like to be able to change a signal remotely and when it changes the loco speed corresponds accordingly ie at stop it slows to a stop and at clear it accelerates away. Is this possible?"

The all knowing one returned this (bear in mind it is talking about what I use for my electronics)
Yes — it is absolutely possible, and it fits very well with the sort of systems you’ve already been working with
The key idea is to let a signal command influence the throttle input rather than directly cutting power.
Below is a clear, practical way to think about it, from simplest to more advanced.

The basic principle (important)​

Your 2.4 GHz RC system already controls:
  • Speed → throttle channel
  • Direction → direction channel
What you want is:
Signal aspect → modifies throttle behaviour automatically

So instead of: throttle → ESC → motor

You insert a logic layer: Handset throttle → controller → ESC → motor
↑
Signal state

Option 1 – Most practical & flexible (recommended)​

RC receiver + microcontroller in the locomotive

How it works
  • RC receiver goes into a small microcontroller (Arduino Nano / ESP32 / PICAXE).
  • The controller:
    • Reads the throttle channel
    • Knows the current signal state (Stop / Caution / Clear)
    • Outputs a modified throttle signal to the ESC
Behaviour example
  • Signal = STOP
    • Ignore further throttle increases
    • Gradually ramp speed down to zero
  • Signal = CLEAR
    • Allow throttle again
    • Ramp speed up smoothly

✔ Smooth prototypical behaviour
✔ No power interruption
✔ Works with any ESC
✔ Very realistic braking and acceleration

How does the signal talk to the loco?​

You have several choices:

A) RC channel for the signal
  • Use a spare channel on the same transmitter
  • One switch = signal state
  • Receiver already in the loco
Simplest if you have spare channels

B) Separate 2.4 GHz link (ESP-NOW / NRF24 / RC relay)​

  • Signal mast has a small transmitter
  • Loco listens for signal commands
  • Works even with multiple loco
Good if you want trackside signals controlling trains automatically

C) Trackside sensor + wireless command​

  • Signal changes when a train occupies a block
  • That signal broadcasts STOP to approaching trains
This is how full block signalling is done.

Option 2 – No microcontroller (limited but possible)​


RC relay or electronic switch​

You could:
  • Use a relay to:
    • Reduce throttle
    • Switch to a preset low-speed signal
  • Or cut motor power

⚠ Downsides:
  • Abrupt stops
  • No smooth deceleration
  • Feels unrealistic

This is usually not recommended for garden railways.

What most garden railway modellers do​


The modern approach is:
  • Battery + ESC + RC receiver in loco
  • Microcontroller between receiver and ESC
  • Signals send commands wirelessly
  • Throttle is interpreted, not passed straight through
This gives:
  • Smooth braking into a stop signal
  • Automatic restart on clear
  • Speed limits for caution aspects
  • Future expansion (block control, station stops, etc.)

Is this worth doing?​

✔ Yes — and it’s very achievable
✔ It does not require replacing your RC system
✔ It scales nicely from:
  • One signal → one loco
    to
  • Multiple signals → multiple trains

Hardware you would typically need​

In the loco:
  • Existing RC receiver
  • ESC
  • Arduino Nano / ESP32 / PICAXE
  • Optional: voltage regulator
At the signal:
  • Servo or LEDs for aspect
  • Small controller or RC switch
  • Wireless sender (or RC channel)
This should give your grey matter to chew over
Oh and welcome to the forum where everyday is an adventure

Now I am interested in this so maybe another thing to add to the list
Click to expand...
Have to say I am somewhat sceptical about this but I would follow advice from outpr resident expert on all things RC @PhilP . Plus there would be the issue of fitting in an Arduino (other similar devices available) plus circuitry into whatever part of the system decided upon. Oh and if permanently outside weatherproofing that device.
 
I am somewhat distracted at the moment, with keep going over to the horse-spital..
However, the AI has got this spookily close to things some of us have been looking at and talking about.

This may be a lot easier in the climate of parts of Australia, where it is drier (more arid?) than the green and pleasant (read damp) lands of the UK.

IR detection is not the best, outside.. Dappled shade is a problem, though using an alternating current to drive the emitter, means you can look for a narrow band of signal. - Less noise.

Everything will need a source of power. - We have looked at single Lithium cells for signals, to make them autonomous units.
These could be brought in between running sessions, and there are multi-output charges that can be used to charge a number at once.
But, how many would want the regime of charging a dozen or more signals, after every session?

I have got as far as drawing up a housing that would look a little like an equipment cabinet. This would house a small microcontroller / radio board, battery and psu, servo. These could be made to 'clip' between a pair of sleepers for location. Possibly a sub-unit connected for train detection on approach?

It all adds complexity, and how many people would want this?
What 'style' of signal should we produce?
Upper or lower quadrant? - easy to alter.
Which country (or company) signalling rules do we work to?
And the biggy: Could we make any money out of it?

We can give people something very generic (we are playing trains, after all) but building a 'proper' signalling system, would be down to the individual.
If you are prepared to learn how to code, it is not too difficult to get 'something' running, but to create a 'product' robust enough for the 'average' modeller, is a different matter.

PhilP.
 
PhilP said:
I am somewhat distracted at the moment, with keep going over to the horse-spital..
However, the AI has got this spookily close to things some of us have been looking at and talking about.

This may be a lot easier in the climate of parts of Australia, where it is drier (more arid?) than the green and pleasant (read damp) lands of the UK.

IR detection is not the best, outside.. Dappled shade is a problem, though using an alternating current to drive the emitter, means you can look for a narrow band of signal. - Less noise.

Everything will need a source of power. - We have looked at single Lithium cells for signals, to make them autonomous units.
These could be brought in between running sessions, and there are multi-output charges that can be used to charge a number at once.
But, how many would want the regime of charging a dozen or more signals, after every session?

I have got as far as drawing up a housing that would look a little like an equipment cabinet. This would house a small microcontroller / radio board, battery and psu, servo. These could be made to 'clip' between a pair of sleepers for location. Possibly a sub-unit connected for train detection on approach?

It all adds complexity, and how many people would want this?
What 'style' of signal should we produce?
Upper or lower quadrant? - easy to alter.
Which country (or company) signalling rules do we work to?
And the biggy: Could we make any money out of it?

We can give people something very generic (we are playing trains, after all) but building a 'proper' signalling system, would be down to the individual.
If you are prepared to learn how to code, it is not too difficult to get 'something' running, but to create a 'product' robust enough for the 'average' modeller, is a different matter.

PhilP.
Click to expand...
Sorry to put you in the frame Philip, I know you are very busy just now I just could not think of anyone else with sufficient nouse in the forum. Not to decry any in the forum, but RC, Dead Rail and such linking is complex as Philip has said above, at least it is being thought about.
 
No problem...
Needy teenager, but I do know it hurts after back surgery. Been there, got the scars to prove it. :D

PhilP.
 
Good point about detection.
I was not planning on using any detection but rely on the signal transmitter sending state and the loco signal but that would entail setting the stopping distance to match the range.
I am planning an occupancy detection system using RFID so I would use that for loco location.

As for power I could just use a sealed acid battery charged by a solar panel for all my signals, but LI-ion cell holds a lot of charge and the power drain would be low.

I do not think it would be be commercially viable it would be a gimmick that each individual could use depending on electronic expertise.

As far as coding goes I couldn't write a program to save my self that is what I keep AI for. I just ask the questions and evaluate the answers and when it writes my code I run it and if I like the look of it or it does what I want I expand on it.

It would be a lot of mucking around but as with my point setting indicator board would be a fun project.

But I am so far down the rabbit hole now it all seems wonderful in my land.
 
Last edited:
Welcome highlander ,

do you have an idea of what trains you'd like to run? Is the battery compatibility for trains of friends rather than yours? or do you have some battery trains? I would suggest that signaling is difficult to do if you want digital, digital sound and lights as well - I wouldn't recommend that for first layout.

IMG_20210723_200629.jpg
 
craigwrdouglas2 said:
Welcome highlander ,

do you have an idea of what trains you'd like to run? Is the battery compatibility for trains of friends rather than yours? or do you have some battery trains? I would suggest that signaling is difficult to do if you want digital, digital sound and lights as well - I wouldn't recommend that for first layout.

View attachment 351335
Click to expand...
Signalling well worth while on a layout especially if you have visitors. You do need people to understand that passing a signal at danger is a big no no, I find telling them that 2 £1000 or plus value trains should not meet head on because of the possible damage tends to focus the minds.

Yes it is analogue but it has served the real thing for near 100 years possibly longer and still now, not that long since auto stop became a regular thing but LT had a system with a lever that lifted to catch a Trip Cock that shut off the train if it passed a location where there would be a red signal in advance. To my knowledge that system was around in the 1970’s, but things have I think mostly moved on now. I wonder if something similar could work in our svpcale?
 
craigwrdouglas2 said:
I would suggest that signaling is difficult to do if you want digital, digital sound and lights as well - I wouldn't recommend that for first layout.
Click to expand...
Pray tell me why? DCC all the way here - even the analogue stuff via analogue to digital with Roco 10836 switch boxes. Forget the couple of wires idea though.
 
dunnyrail said:
Signalling well worth while on a layout especially if you have visitors. You do need people to understand that passing a signal at danger is a big no no, I find telling them that 2 £1000 or plus value trains should not meet head on because of the possible damage tends to focus the minds.

Yes it is analogue but it has served the real thing for near 100 years possibly longer and still now, not that long since auto stop became a regular thing but LT had a system with a lever that lifted to catch a Trip Cock that shut off the train if it passed a location where there would be a red signal in advance. To my knowledge that system was around in the 1970’s, but things have I think mostly moved on now. I wonder if something similar could work in our svpcale?
Click to expand...
Nothing like a little mayhem at Northants' 16mm NGM group meetings here at the West Well. All my junctions ars "protected" at their entry points (unidirectional here) by pneumatic powered signals linked to the points. Rule 1, always observe the signals before proceeding. What could possibly go wrong :D Max

The fearsome X and other jcts'. Visitors beware. We only use RC here. Or the odd manual control.

20220526_171508.jpg

Ignore at your peril :devil:

20210808_132201.jpg
 
highlander100 said:
1 - want wireless control and battery power for the local’s
2 - able to power trackside accessories, happy to hard wire these.
3 - be able to intergrate locos and accessories from the same interface
4 - ideally be able to have control to stop the locos remotely at signals.
5 - final layout could be in the range of 30m by 20m. But that will likely be years off. But want the system to be able to communicate over that distance from day one.
Click to expand...
1 & 5 - Others have provided plenty of advice but Micron and Fosworks would meet these needs if you are UK based
2 - Sounds like you have this covered
3 - Not used it but I think Airwire does this - CVP Products AirWire For Large Scales
4 - As Graeme (GAP) has said, you would need to explore Arduino or Picaxe microprocessor control assuming you want the signals controlling the locos automatically.

I have radio control and battery power and also radio controlled semaphore signals. They are on separate systems which I prefer as it mirrors real life running in pre AWS day (my railway is set in the 1930s)

I've shared some of my experiences with the above on my blog which might help you get started - Contents

Rik
 
Technically, AirWire is not legal in the UK..

But unless you caused a problem with 'something else', I doubt you would ever be bothered by the authorities?

Theoretically, of course, they may not be prepared to supply/support you, for fear of litigation.

There was a 'Europe' legal version available for a time, I believe.

PhilP.
 
PhilP said:
Technically, AirWire is not legal in the UK..

But unless you caused a problem with 'something else', I doubt you would ever be bothered by the authorities?

Theoretically, of course, they may not be prepared to supply/support you, for fear of litigation.

There was a 'Europe' legal version available for a time, I believe.

PhilP.
Click to expand...
Ah that explains why I have never been able to get my hands in Airwire. Always liked the look of it.
 
Airwire runs at 900MHz I believe and is definitely not allowed in Australia which is why I shied away from it when starting.
2.4GHz is good here so that is what I use and as the plane, robot and car people use it to there are plenty of bits around.

I am exploring ESP32 and I have plans to use it as a handheld throttle controller with signal and point control all over WiFi.
As it took me over 12 months to get my Wifi point mimic screen to work it could be in the future, then again I did keep adding to the point mimic and the way the points were controlled resulting in 2 start overs.

For the electronics nerds;
core-electronics.com.au

What is the ESP32 - Tutorial Australia

<p>The ESP8266 is the Serial to Wi-Fi SOC gaining steam back in August of 2014, no doubt you've heard of it; if not used one yourself. Since then, hundreds of IoT devices were built on this originally-undocumented device. With those projects and products built around the chip came a myriad of...
core-electronics.com.au core-electronics.com.au

The display I am seriously looking at is e-paper which evidently overcomes the sunlight problem experienced with smart phone screens.
Google provided this;

An ESP32 e-paper (or e-ink) display combines the low-power, paper-like screen with the powerful Wi-Fi/Bluetooth capabilities of an ESP32 microcontroller, perfect for battery-operated IoT devices like smart signs or e-tags. E-paper reflects light, offering great readability in sunlight, holding images without power, but updating slowly; the ESP32 handles data fetching (weather, sensors) and sends it via SPI to the display, waking up, updating the screen, and going back to deep sleep to save significant energy, enabling long battery life.

E-Paper Display Technology
  • How it Works: Uses tiny capsules with black and white particles that move to create an image when voltage is applied, mimicking ink on paper.
  • Key Feature: Bistable – holds the image (text/graphics) even when power is removed, making it extremely power efficient for static content.
  • Pros: Excellent sunlight readability, ultra-low power, retains display without power.
  • Cons: Slow refresh rates (seconds), generally not for video/animation, higher cost.
I did say before that I am way down the rabbit hole but hey its my hobby and keeps me happy and out of the hair of SWMBO.
 
Last edited:
GAP said:
Airwire runs at 900MHz I believe and is definitely not allowed in Australia which is why I shied away from it when starting.
2.4GHz is good here so that is what I use and as the plane, robot and car people use it to there are plenty of bits around.

I am exploring ESP32 and I have plans to use it as a handheld throttle controller with signal and point control all over WiFi.
As it took me over 12 months to get my Wifi point mimic screen to work it could be in the future, then again I did keep adding to the point mimic and the way the points were controlled resulting in 2 start overs.

For the electronics nerds;
core-electronics.com.au

What is the ESP32 - Tutorial Australia

<p>The ESP8266 is the Serial to Wi-Fi SOC gaining steam back in August of 2014, no doubt you've heard of it; if not used one yourself. Since then, hundreds of IoT devices were built on this originally-undocumented device. With those projects and products built around the chip came a myriad of...
core-electronics.com.au core-electronics.com.au

The display I am seriously looking at is e-paper which evidently overcomes the sunlight problem experienced with smart phone screens.
Google provided this;

An ESP32 e-paper (or e-ink) display combines the low-power, paper-like screen with the powerful Wi-Fi/Bluetooth capabilities of an ESP32 microcontroller, perfect for battery-operated IoT devices like smart signs or e-tags. E-paper reflects light, offering great readability in sunlight, holding images without power, but updating slowly; the ESP32 handles data fetching (weather, sensors) and sends it via SPI to the display, waking up, updating the screen, and going back to deep sleep to save significant energy, enabling long battery life.

E-Paper Display Technology
  • How it Works: Uses tiny capsules with black and white particles that move to create an image when voltage is applied, mimicking ink on paper.
  • Key Feature: Bistable – holds the image (text/graphics) even when power is removed, making it extremely power efficient for static content.
  • Pros: Excellent sunlight readability, ultra-low power, retains display without power.
  • Cons: Slow refresh rates (seconds), generally not for video/animation, higher cost.
I did say before that I am way down the rabbit hole but hey its my hobby and keeps me happy and out of the hair of SWMBO.
Click to expand...
I have to say that it was you I was thinking about when I made my original comment about Raspberry-Pi - I couldn't actually remember the programming source you used, but I knew you were fairly well into it :nerd::nerd:
 
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