Problems with power supply on my Aristo 21402 4-6-2

Swedmodeler

Swedmodeler

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Hello!

A couple of weeks agoI bought an semi-vintage Aristocraft steam locomotive from a german seller on Ebay, the common Atlantic type with smoke and sound from the 1990'ties. I got it relatively cheap because it was advertised as an object for repair. On the track with my strong LGB power pack only and suddenly short impulses of power will have the loco to move for about one feet, then it stops. If I wait a while the procedure will be repeated. :rolleyes: The power pickup can't be wrong since the lights work as well as the smoke-fan when the button for this on the pilot is activated. The motor runs when I connect it directly on its plus and minus poles, but it runs very slowly backwards. What can be wrong? Perhaps something is wrong in the circuit card connected to the motor with two white cables. How can I troubleshoot this

Hopeful for answers

Claes in Sweden
 
maxi-model

maxi-model

UK/US/ROW steam narrow gauge railways 1:1
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There may be some answers here 2008 Aristo Pacific Tips . Take care George seems to be writing about what might be a later version of the Aristo' Pacific from the one you have. If in doubt this is the site that will give you the lowdown on some of the older LS stuff. And of course there is Greg's site too Home :) Max

Edit - the older version is discussed here Aristo Pacific Tips Hiding in plain sight ;)
 
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PhilP

PhilP

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I would first look at the wheels / motion. - Check the quartering, the motion may be binding?

Then, if you have not got one, buy a test-meter, so you can see how much current (Amps) the loco is drawing.

Use the continuity test (on the meter, it will 'bleep') to check all the wheels etc. down each side of the loco, are 'connected' so picking up power.

Clean the tyres (the part of the wheels touching the rails.
Also, check if there are any wipers which rub on the rear-face of the wheels? - If so, clean the rear-faces, with a mild solvent. They do not nneed to be shiny-bright.

Is your power-supply capable of 5 amps, or more?

Once the above have been checked, we are then possibly into checking if there is a problem with motors and gears.


If the loco will only move in one direction, it could be a fault on the internal board? - From my experience, this is quite often obvious, but burnt-out components.
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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I don't have experience of the Pacific, but I have used the old C-16 power block.

As Phil says, it sounds most likely to be electrical continuity / pick up issues, and as the loco is fairly old, probably worth taking the drive train apart carefully to follow the electrical path, and to clean all of the contact areas.

Once you've got past the cleaning of the wheel surfaces (tyres) you need to look at how the current is then transferred, as there are many different ways of doing this, and some manufacturers use different methods on different models.

The early C-16 had a springy washer on the inside of the wheel that transferred the current to the bearings which were set in a cast half of the block - the entire cast motor/drive block was held together with a plastic separator in the middle. I doubt the Pacific is the same, but it's things like this that you need to look out for.
 
Swedmodeler

Swedmodeler

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Hi Pilip!
Many thanks for your quick reply. First, my transformer is a LGB 5006 and 5007 control unit is over 5amps, but I shure will buy a test-meter and clean the wheels.

There may be some answers here 2008 Aristo Pacific Tips . Take care George seems to be writing about what might be a later version of the Aristo' Pacific from the one you have. If in doubt this is the site that will give you the lowdown on some of the older LS stuff. And of course there is Greg's site too Home :) Max
 
Greg Elmassian

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Runs a bit and stops could be the thermal breaker is overloading.

Motor runs better forwards than backwards, sounds like gear binding (which would support thermal breaker issue)

I'd disconnect the motor and check the motor separately, to eliminate brush problems or bad windings.

While motor out, check quarter/loose wheels...

be sure to use references on the "old style" Pacific, and leave smoke off during testing, in case that is drawing too much current.

Greg
 
Swedmodeler

Swedmodeler

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Thanks all of you for interesting comments and advices. I have now mounted two cables with contacts from the motor to the tender pickup wheels like George have done, who Maxi-model advised me to look at. With the multimeter tool I can see that there is no power from the c.card so I "bypass connected" the motor with cables to the tender and now it runs but it can still stop. If you put a finger on the bogies on the tender it starts again. After a cleaning up of the tender-wheel surfaces power pickup was improved but it can still stop with only headlight and beachhead light working. I have removed the body shell to check the card. Can you pls help me to identify what the different pieces and sockets on the cables ar intended for? What its the broad cable and the socket hanging loose in my photo intended for? (I have failed to find this card on the exploded diagrams you can find on the older Aristo Atlantic type loco.)

Finally, what do you think about mounting LGB style coal brushes on both the tender bogies to improve the power pickup?

20200212_193542.jpg
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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Yep, plunger brushes (LGB or Massoth) are a good and reliable way to pick up current from the tender wheels :nod::nod: I've done that in two or three locos over the years (only got one left - one sold and one converted to battery power).
 
PhilP

PhilP

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To my eyes:
This look's to have been well messed-about-with, in the past? - I wonder if it was converted to battery / radio-control, at some point in it's life?

The wires linked by the screws, look like there may be a little corrosion?
The large-black connectors. - These might be badly crimped? Run the loco, and gently tap (hit) these connections with a screwdriver handle. If the loco stop's / starts, it may be there is an intermittent connection amongst these??
I am curious about the small rectangular board, with the silver object, nearest the camera? - Could you provide a picture of the other side of it please?

PhilP
 
Tony Walsham

Tony Walsham

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Hi Phil.
That small pcb at the front looks to be the Rx part of an old Locolinc installation.
 
PhilP

PhilP

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Hi Phil.
That small pcb at the front looks to be the Rx part of an old Locolinc installation.
That makes the 'silver thing' a crystal, then? - I did wonder..

So the large board is a speed controller, I assume?


This means the flat cable is the control signal from the receiver to the speed controller. - The 'spare' end of this would probably have gone to a soundcard, to supply throttle information for the 'chuff' speed..


What are your intentions for the loco? - Do you want to run it analogue, or in some other way?
I (personally) would probably strip most of this out, and start again..

PhilP.
 
Greg Elmassian

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Having an existing receiver and motor driver makes a big difference.

You never mentioned a transmitter? If you have one, does it control the loco? If not, are you going to try to get one?

Otherwise, I'd change it out.

Greg
 
Swedmodeler

Swedmodeler

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To my eyes:
This look's to have been well messed-about-with, in the past? - I wonder if it was converted to battery / radio-control, at some point in it's life?

The wires linked by the screws, look like there may be a little corrosion?
The large-black connectors. - These might be badly crimped? Run the loco, and gently tap (hit) these connections with a screwdriver handle. If the loco stop's / starts, it may be there is an intermittent connection amongst these??
I am curious about the small rectangular board, with the silver object, nearest the camera? - Could you provide a picture of the other side of it please?

PhilP
[/QUOT
Having an existing receiver and motor driver makes a big difference.

You never mentioned a transmitter? If you have one, does it control the loco? If not, are you going to try to get one?

Otherwise, I'd change it out.

Greg
Thanks Greg, my intention is to drive it analogue (together with my new LGB Uintah 2-6-6-2). I like big US locos and took a chance when this loco showed up on Ebay last month. I got it for 150 € so I expected to repair it. I Think I remove this card or at least cut the Cables.. :cool:
 
Swedmodeler

Swedmodeler

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Yes Philip, the spurious card is probably intended for RC, but if so there are no Connections for the battery pack. :rolleyes: I will, as I maybe already mentioned, drive it analogue and remove these Connections. I expected it might be problems because the loco was under the half price of an elder Aristocraft Atlantic from the 1990'ties.
 
Rhinochugger

Rhinochugger

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Yes Philip, the spurious card is probably intended for RC, but if so there are no Connections for the battery pack. :rolleyes: I will, as I maybe already mentioned, drive it analogue and remove these Connections. I expected it might be problems because the loco was under the half price of an elder Aristocraft Atlantic from the 1990'ties.
Nothing like a challenge :clap::clap:
 
Fred2179G

Fred2179G

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The wires linked by the screws, look like there may be a little corrosion?
The 2 screws in the center with tabbed wires under them are original. If I remember correctly they are the central point for power collected from the various wheels (front truck, drivers, etc.)
 
Swedmodeler

Swedmodeler

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The loco now runs pretty good forward and backwards with power supply from all the small Wheels on the loco and the tender. But when I turn on the analogue sound I find that a bell sound could be removed. Anyone who have suggestions how to outmap this on the card in the tender body?
 
PhilP

PhilP

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Can you supply a picture of the sound card, please?