Playmobil 4050

LGB-Sid

LGB-Sid

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Just acquired a Playmobil 4050 as part of a job lot I bought , I noticed the Playmobil power brick that comes with it says 14v are the motor blocks in these 14v or can they take the full 24v the intention was to make a new body for it , but only if it can be converted to run on 24v DCC

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The Chip will be getting 24v AC, the chip rectifies that to a lower voltage in DC so should not be a problem.
 
What do you intend to run it on? - Analogue, DCC, battery??

You may well find you only ever need 6-9V to make it run at a prototypical speed.. So 'track voltage' may not actually mean very much??
 
PhilP said:
What do you intend to run it on? - Analogue, DCC, battery??

You may well find you only ever need 6-9V to make it run at a prototypical speed.. So 'track voltage' may not actually mean very much??
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He did say DCC Phil, but I wonder if he is planning to run as Loco 0 without a Chip. That would probably be not too good.
 
Thanks for reply's ,My outside track is 24v DCC so any engine would need to be chipped to run on it ,which is why I wanted to know if the blocks in these are the same as LGB they can run on 24v track power , It runs OK on the 14v playmobil power pack that came with it as I tested it with a oval of track inside. I didn't want to build a body for it and chip it if the motor block is not compatible with 24v when chipped, I am sure I can sell it on easy enough, but 3D printing a British looking body for it sounds like fun :)
 
The blocks are not the same as LGB and have a maximum voltage of 14v. With that voltage, Playmobil recommended trains of no more than four items of rolling stock. You might get away with more with LGB stock as Playmobil stock have a hefty ballast weight usually.
 
Some useful notes and pics in an old thread here:
https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/tcs-t1-decoder-in-playmobil-motor-block.52103/
about chipping a Playmobil block (this one is in the track maintenance vehicle, but the PM blocks are basically all the same) using a small inexpensive TCS decoder; personally I'd use something just a little bit more powerful like a Massoth L (or an old LGB 55021), but all the principles in the thread still apply.
I don't think you'll have any trouble at all running it on DCC once chipped, at least provided you're not going to have the poor little thing screaming round your track at full throttle..... ;)

Jon.
 
playmofire said:
The blocks are not the same as LGB and have a maximum voltage of 14v. With that voltage, Playmobil recommended trains of no more than four items of rolling stock. You might get away with more with LGB stock as Playmobil stock have a hefty ballast weight usually.
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Thanks just spotted printed on the bottom of the motor block it says 14v :(
 
Zerogee said:
Some useful notes and pics in an old thread here:
https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/tcs-t1-decoder-in-playmobil-motor-block.52103/
about chipping a Playmobil block (this one is in the track maintenance vehicle, but the PM blocks are basically all the same) using a small inexpensive TCS decoder; personally I'd use something just a little bit more powerful like a Massoth L (or an old LGB 55021), but all the principles in the thread still apply.
I don't think you'll have any trouble at all running it on DCC once chipped, at least provided you're not going to have the poor little thing screaming round your track at full throttle..... ;)

Jon.
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Nothing runs fast here including me :) when I chipped the Stainz locos I restricted there top speed so they can only be run realistic, the idea for it was to add a Masssoth L as that will be removed from one of the Stainz locos so I can improve the sound on one of them. It use would be as a shunting engine.


Lamp doesn't work in it, so bulb already gone before I got it, had a look inside to see if it had a lamp it's wired but not working .
 
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If it turns out the loco isn't any use to you, i'll happily buy if off you if it's in reasonable nick to fund a more suitable motor unit. I've been idly after a 4050 loco for a little while now. If not, it'll be interesting to see what you do with it, I really enjoy reading the build threads!
 
I have not seen a DCC decoder that regulates the VOLTAGE from the rails. Every decoder I have ever seen rectifies track voltage and then presents it to some circuit to modulate that FULL track voltage with PWM.

Thus this motor with a decoder would be getting full 24v pulses. Sure you can use CV's to limit the max MODULATION percentage but not the voltage.

If there is a current production decoder that does regulate voltage I would like to be informed.

The bottom line is that run slowly, the higher voltage pulses should not damage the motor, but I would highly recommend severely limiting the top speed with CV5 and also to run it with it's intended load and then test/check the motor temperature.

Normal failures of overheating is melting the plastic that supports the windings, or overheating the insulation on the magnet wire that the motor is wound with, which causes shorts.

Greg
 
Greg Elmassian said:
I have not seen a DCC decoder that regulates the VOLTAGE from the rails. Every decoder I have ever seen rectifies track voltage and then presents it to some circuit to modulate that FULL track voltage with PWM.

Thus this motor with a decoder would be getting full 24v pulses. Sure you can use CV's to limit the max MODULATION percentage but not the voltage.

If there is a current production decoder that does regulate voltage I would like to be informed.

The bottom line is that run slowly, the higher voltage pulses should not damage the motor, but I would highly recommend severely limiting the top speed with CV5 and also to run it with it's intended load and then test/check the motor temperature.

Normal failures of overheating is melting the plastic that supports the windings, or overheating the insulation on the magnet wire that the motor is wound with, which causes shorts.

Greg
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Thanks Greg that is the answer I was looking for can it run on 24V rails and the answer is the chip will still feed a 14v motor with 24v which in the end will not be good for the motor :( will sit and look at it for awhile and decide what to do with it now, I was looking forward to drawing up a new body for it and 3D printing it but it's a lot of work if the end result can't be run on my current setup.
 
I think you will be fine, as long as you do not put Tornado's body on it, and run it at express speeds..

Why not pull the block, and jury-rig track and motor connections? - Run it for 5 minutes at a reasonably fast speed, and see if the motor gets hot.

Unless you will let it run for hours 'roundy-roundy' I reckon it will be fine.
 
PhilP said:
I think you will be fine, as long as you do not put Tornado's body on it, and run it at express speeds..

Why not pull the block, and jury-rig track and motor connections? - Run it for 5 minutes at a reasonably fast speed, and see if the motor gets hot.

Unless you will let it run for hours 'roundy-roundy' I reckon it will be fine.
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My line is really an end to end so slow speeds :) is there nothing you can put between the pickup wires before they go to a decoder to limit the 24v down to 14v max , I'm not an electrician so might be a dumb question.
 
LGB-Sid said:
My line is really an end to end so slow speeds :) is there nothing you can put between the pickup wires before they go to a decoder to limit the 24v down to 14v max , I'm not an electrician so might be a dumb question.
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There are variable adjustable voltage boards on ebay

LM2596.JPG

DSCF5906.JPG But it is polarity sensitive. It was a fellow Forumite that helped me when I wanted to install a 5v smoke unit.

Dia.jpg
I'm not good with these things so I don't know it will suit your needs.
 
LGB-Sid said:
My line is really an end to end so slow speeds :) is there nothing you can put between the pickup wires before they go to a decoder to limit the 24v down to 14v max , I'm not an electrician so might be a dumb question.
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There are ways of doing this.. Some better than others..

A very simple way, is to use a string of back-to-back diodes, but they will get warm, and have other limitations as well.

The main problem with 'over-volting' the motor, is it may saturate the windings, causing heating.

At low speeds the PWM '24 volts' will be off more than it is on, so the 'average' voltage is lower and the loco runs slowly. The power (when it is there) is the full 24 volts, so you get a better 'push' to the motor, and better low-speed running.
Without an oscilloscope, you can not easily tell what voltage is coming out of the motor terminals on a decoder. Also, being a 'square-wave' means your normal AC meter wil give an incorrect answer.
 
PhilP said:
Mick, they give fixed DC voltage.. No good to drive a motor forwards / backwards at variable speed.
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I just thought Sid wanted to reduce the voltage down to whatever (14v?).

Told you I'm not good at these things:)
 
I know very little about DCC, but the Playmobil track powered range dates from 1980 and was last made in 1996.

If you think about LGB from the early days of that period the locos were also just getting out of the 14v period and the bigger LGB transformers sold then were switchable 14 to 18v.

Apart from some minor design changes to the shell the PM track powered motor block remained the same throughout those 16 years.

PM trains are great toys and very solidly built and I am very fond of them.

If you need a replacement PM bulb, or a complete PM bulb, socket and leads please contact me. Be happy to oblige.

PS: I think Walt ran his track powered PM layout from the Airfix MTC system from the early 80s, but I guess the Airfix loco chips had a lower OO/HO type voltage output?

James
 
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