PIKO CR(A)P

[whatlep]

This has been said before, but I'm saying it again anyway for anyone who is buying any digital system.

Do not keep it in the shed or the garage - condensation will form inside the unit and it WILL FAIL.
I would strongly advise the same for all your locos - especially digital ones.

My LGB MTS II system which has been faultless for 6 years is kept in a warm, dry dining room.

Up to a point Stainzmeister! My LGB MTS1 unit and the associated 55055 receiver lived in an outside shed for 6 years (1999-2005) and were perfectly happy. It's still available if needed. Possibly the trick was that the unit was next to a transformer which was left on continuously, conveying a slight, but noticeable amount of warmth to the few inches around it. The locos were kept indoors for security.

All my Massoth point modules and reversing modules are permanently outdoors, hidden in RSPB bird boxes. They have survived for up to a decade, including in the last two winters (-13C at its worst last winter), not to mention legions of spiders. Before anyone asks, yes, the boxes' openings have been sealed to avoid birds using them!

 

[muns]

Tim,

Did you ever get in contact with Massoth?

 

[Tim Brien]

Tim,

Did you ever get in contact with Massoth?

Mark,
I decided that I was no longer interested in the Piko DCC system. The wireless analogue portion seems to be working well, so not a complete loss.
The dealer requested that I return the unit for evaluation, but with return shipping around $120, not worth the money.

 

[Tim Brien]

This is what I posted on the Massoth forum -

"Well, having nothing to lose as the unit appeared inoperative, I removed the circuit board from the mounting case and noticed that one of the two large aluminium heat sinks mounted to the top of the circuit board was loose and had moved sideways. It may have been earthing out the board. Once repositioned and refitted to the case the unit now works fine. Pity that I spent another $700 buying a system from another manufacturer to replace this one! Now I have two operating systems."

Maybe a bit better quality control from Piko and I would have saved myself $700 in buying the NCE system. That being said I do like the NCE setup. Looks like a little tinkering paid off.

 

[daveyb]

well done for fixing it tim,,,,,,,, do you think this was the cause of all the problems

and are you going to sell it or use it to evaluate it,,,

knowledge is power,,,,,

 

[Tim Brien]

Dave,
the unit is now working beautifully, so the heatsink moving on the board was obviously the cause. I use the Piko Navigator for my Piko analogue 5 amp controller, as well as for the central station, so gain nothing by disposing of the base unit.

 

[Zerogee]

Dave,
the unit is now working beautifully, so the heatsink moving on the board was obviously the cause. I use the Piko Navigator for my Piko analogue 5 amp controller, as well as for the central station, so gain nothing by disposing of the base unit.

Very pleased to hear the unit is now working, Tim - it's a shame that poor assembly work and quality control (the loose heatsink) has given you so much trouble, but it's good to hear that it is not a fundamental fault with the unit design. It sound like you were quite lucky that the shifting heatsink didn't short out something permanently inside the unit!

Just as an aside, I noticed the other day that one of Gaugemasters' ads in a magazine was listing the Piko Navigator at the horrendous price of £320!!!!
Given that Jeremy (Dragon) still lists the Piko Navi for £247.50 (and the Massoth one for £254), obviously you need to be careful where you buy.....

Jon.

 

[Tim Brien]

Jon,
while I am extremely pleased that the unit is now operating, it is a bitter sweet victory as the replacement NCE system only turned up a few days ago and it cost me $700 including shipping (very good price).

When the unit first failed I had a quick look inside but could not pull out the circuit board. Today (some months later) I decided to further investigate and found the board easily comes out. I know nothing of circuit boards and particularly digital boards, so was not hopefull of a positive outcome. The misplaced heatsink was blatantly obvious, so even blind Freddie could have seen it. The trick was getting the board out first to find the problem. Now a very happy camper. I hooked the unit straight up to my railway and spent the day using the system.

I much prefer the Navigator to the NCE cab. I nicknamed the NCE cab as "the brick". If you get to hold one you will understand my nickname. The NCE cab has utterly no real design and definately not ergonomic - purely functional and very good at what it does.

 

[muns]

Hi Tim,

Glad you found the issue and fixed it. Shame about the QC from Markin. Do you think the heatsink could have been dislodged whilst in transit?

In any case you are now tasked with comparing/reviewing the NCE and the Piko system as you have them side by side

 

[Tim Brien]

Mark,
the heatsink is retained by four screws (seems a sort of friction lock). It was not flopping around, but could be moved side to side. It was cocked at about a 20 degree angle to the adjacent heatsink. I slid it back in place with minimal resistance and reassembled the unit.

I have been particularly careful handling the unit and it came factory sealed and well packaged. As I had used it several times with no faults present, possibly the heatsink was at the point of making contact awaiting minimal movement/jarring to short it out. I will never know. I am just kicking myself for not investigating when the fault occurred, but then I know nothing of troubleshooting a digital board. I do like the Navigator handpiece.

 

[mike]

Mark,
no, the receiver has never been, nor attempted to be operated with digital and analogue simultaneously. I used the same power supply for both, so the power supply needs to be swapped over to the required system to be used and the correct analogue or digital cable fitted to the receiver.

For the brandname afficiandos. in so far as choosing the Piko system over the Massoth system, well cost is a factor, but my overriding consideration was that the Piko system offered a Navigator handset that controlled BOTH digital AND analogue by wireless control. The Massoth system does NOT have this facility.

er, sorry, your mistaken.. i can drive anolog locos wireleslly with both my navagautres /massoth set up

 

[mbendebba]

Hi Tim,

Glad you found the issue and fixed it. Shame about the QC from Markin. Do you think the heatsink could have been dislodged whilst in transit?

In any case you are now tasked with comparing/reviewing the NCE and the Piko system as you have them side by side

Hey Mark:
"Shame about the QC from Markin", you mean Piko right.

 

[muns]

Hi Tim,

Glad you found the issue and fixed it. Shame about the QC from Markin. Do you think the heatsink could have been dislodged whilst in transit?

In any case you are now tasked with comparing/reviewing the NCE and the Piko system as you have them side by side

Hey Mark:
"Shame about the QC from Markin", you mean Piko right.

Doh! Yeah, thats who I ment - but maybe the cap fits them too!

 

[Tim Brien]

The question came up sometime ago as regards where the Piko system is made. The country of origin is to be found nowhere on the packaging, paperwork or on the plastic mouldings on any of the pieces. I believe most countries require under legislation, the country of origin to be printed on the item. Who actually makes the system and where it is made is still a mystery to me. I am just pleased that it works, again.

 

[KeithT]

I've got several Piko points out there, and none have failed as yet, and they've been there for a while.
There does appear to be a bit of product bashing going on .................

Not so as far as the points are concerned Steve.
When I buy 6 points and five fail within 6 months - two within 2 months that is not product bashing that is poor quality product.
I found it embarrassing because after my original purchase I came on the Forum extolling their virtues and, went and bought a second batch before the failures started.
The least Piko could do is acknowledge the failures but all we have several months and several reminders later is a deafening silence.

 

[whatlep]

Who actually makes the system and where it is made is still a mystery to me.

Massoth in Germany is the answer, as attested by the welcome message on your Navigator.

 

[Tim Brien]

Peter,
yes, Massoth did license the use of the Massoth software to Piko, but one would think that a country of origin would accompany the product.

 

[Zerogee]

Peter,
yes, Massoth did license the use of the Massoth software to Piko, but one would think that a country of origin would accompany the product.

It was me that posed the question much earlier in this thread about the actual location of manufacture; yes, as Tim says, the software and the design (at least of the Navi) are Massoth's - but the question remains as to whether the units themselves are actually being assembled by Massoth in their own factory, or are being built by someone else (whether that is in Germany, China or wherever) on Piko's behalf to Massoth's licensed designs.

Jon.

 

[Zerogee]

That's kind of what I'm thinking, Ross.... that it's likely that Piko have licensed Massoth designs and software but are building the actual units somewhere like China for cost reasons.... that may of course be entirely wrong, but until someone can give us a definitive answer....?

Jon.

 

[Tim Brien]

Soldering is well executed, not like the cold/flaky joints on the Chinese boards. I assume that the unit is made in Germany.