Piko central station problem

scook

scook

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Hi all

i have recently completed one loop of my railway, I’m using a full piko system,

I had ran 2 lgb locos on the loop with 2 motors,

the hand set was showing 1.9\ 3.4 amps being pulled depending on speed, after an hour the red stop lights on the hand set were flashing,

I was unable to reset the power by pressing the red flashing stop buttons

the central station was still lit up green

the only way I could repower the track was to turn the mains power on and off again

after shorter periods of time the same kept happening

thinking I had too much of a load on, I tried just running one 2 motor loco, pulling 1.4/1.9 amps, on a different day

after an hour it has cut out again with the central station showing the green ok light,

there are around 19v in the track,

any ideas would be well received,

many thanks Sam
 
My guess would be the present very hot weather..
I would guess the system will be working outside of it's normal conditions?

PhilP
 
PhilP said:
My guess would be the present very hot weather..
I would guess the system will be working outside of it's normal conditions?

PhilP
Click to expand...
I have thought this, the digital system is inside, maybe I could try putting it in a cooler room,

thanks
 
scook said:
I have thought this, the digital system is inside, maybe I could try putting it in a cooler room,

thanks
Click to expand...
I believe it has a separate power supply?

Check both units for temperature.

PhilP
 
Greg Elmassian said:
I believe the track output comes off the central station box, that is where the output transistors would be that would generate heat.

If the command station is hot, it could overheat and shut itself off.

it should not at 3.5 amps though

Greg
Click to expand...
We are experience daytime temperatures that are 11-12C above the norm..

PhilP
 
PhilP said:
We are experience daytime temperatures that are 11-12C above the norm..

PhilP
Click to expand...
That is air temperature in the shade, track temperature in the sum can easily exceed 50 C
 
Had another run today with help from others, again same issue,
Picture below shows a very small hole for air to flow into and out of the unit9A645E83-9C7E-466A-A187-77246B13A019.jpeg

So we decided to take the base off and try the unit upside down with greater air flow
F48F2EC7-52EE-449D-8E7C-8EBD8602900C.jpeg

Unit ran for well over an hour and was already hot from previous run, non of the plastic was hot, just the middle of the green board

Question is do these units run hot?

Before I ran the system with the base on ,the unit gave out some heat from the area where my finger is,EEF9ABB8-96AD-4C50-ABB2-BC4A06405C7E.jpeg

Has anyone experienced this? With the translucent covers down the air flow is non existent as the only opening in under the silver square,

Thanks Sam
 
Last edited:
so, the heat sinks are the large silver (anodized aluminum) blocks, and in normal situ, the fins are pointing up, the properly designed way.

So for using natural convection for cooling, you want air to enter at the bottom, get warmed and exhaust from the top... this is the definition of convection cooling.

So I see the exhaust, where is the intake, since there is no picture with the bottom cover on, or is the first picture the bottom of the unit?

If this is true, then the system is not designed to handle the ambient temperatures you are experiencing.

first, keep out of sunlight of course, but I would add some forced cooling, unfortunately the best case would be an exhaust fan, somehow ducted where your finger is.

Does not have to be high speed, even a tiny bit of airflow will make a big difference (look up "boundary layer" if curious.

I'm sure you're not happy with any of this, since you are not running at max rating and even then getting thermal shutdown, but I predict you won't solve it with the manufacturer.

Greg
 
Greg Elmassian said:
so, the heat sinks are the large silver (anodized aluminum) blocks, and in normal situ, the fins are pointing up, the properly designed way.

So for using natural convection for cooling, you want air to enter at the bottom, get warmed and exhaust from the top... this is the definition of convection cooling.

So I see the exhaust, where is the intake, since there is no picture with the bottom cover on, or is the first picture the bottom of the unit?

If this is true, then the system is not designed to handle the ambient temperatures you are experiencing.

first, keep out of sunlight of course, but I would add some forced cooling, unfortunately the best case would be an exhaust fan, somehow ducted where your finger is.

Does not have to be high speed, even a tiny bit of airflow will make a big difference (look up "boundary layer" if curious.

I'm sure you're not happy with any of this, since you are not running at max rating and even then getting thermal shutdown, but I predict you won't solve it with the manufacturer.

Greg
Click to expand...
Sorry Greg I should have included these pictures of the base, the unit is upside down, as you can see there is no air intake , just the exhaust under the silver plate on the top with the piko writing
3C5AFE88-ABD3-484F-9D8A-481A0C966F55.jpeg4409A4F1-844C-483B-A994-ECC20E24E455.jpeg
Sam
 
Yeah Sam, therein lies the problem, think of the system like an old time heater, or how a chimney works, cool air enters at the bottom, and as the air is heated it comes out the top, a natural "flow"

You just have a hole at the top, no "flow through".

I would bet dollars to doughnuts that a hole in the bottom would make all the difference. Now you use the natural "heat rises" situation to create a cooling flow. Crazy, since it looks like the heat sinks are adequate in size, but with no airflow "path" the cooling is severely limited.

My NCE system is in a flat black metal box, and the power transistors bolted to the box. Black is the best "emitter" of heat, so the only heat sink is the metal case. It will do 10 amps solid all day, and short peaks to 20.

The heat sinks in your unit are nice sized, but without air flow, hampered to get rid of the heat (they should have been black anodized also, but that is a fine point).

Clearly at approximately 1/2 load the design cannot sustain full rated output in your ambient temps, since it fails at half load.

Greg
 
Seems an odd thing for the manufacturer to miss, they obviously deal with electronics the whole, so not to have provided a decent cooling system seems silly
 
Try putting it on a couple of pencils (or similar) to raise it off the surface..

That will allow extra airflow.

You could also put it on a sheet of white paper. - That sheet of paxolin(?) is quite dense and dark in colour, so will absorb heat.

PhilP
 
Is your unit still under warranty? If so arrange for a replacement from your supplier. If not cut a few air holes in the base and add feet to raise the unit of the deck. The unit isn't waterproof and the internal voltages are only about that on the track and other exposed wiring.
 
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