Noise reduction on track bed, advice wanted.

justme igor

justme igor

Registered
Country flag
As the experiment get a more and more of a serious character and i am at the point to plan what i want, where i want, now that i succeeded in track making.
Turnouts, diamonds, crossovers, ect still must have some improvement, those ones are not so easy, but i get there.(will follow Ariosto rules/measurements)

This experiment for the track bed: i use for now osb sheet, to see if i am comfortable with the structure on PVC pipes and a wooden frame attached(hanging) on them plus the height thru out the garden, i could walk over it with my 80 kilo's without deformation of the bed or taking it out of level.

For the sheets i still not figured that one out, could be hdpe, ~foam pvc, exterior multiplex or impregnated (greenish) fence wood covered with a rubber foil or roofing material.
(Even if i would cover the osb sheet to protected them from falling rain they will be good for at least 10 years)

Problem number two
From some you tube vids that i watched, i dont like the noise, especially when they drive (coal)live steam, i dont like sound cards!
Mostly you dont hear the live steam engine but wheel noise.
Is there something i can put under the track to counter that background noise?
I can imagine cork will absorb damp water over time and there your sound insulation is gone and in the long run cork itself?
Expended or extruded polystyrene could do the trick?
Thick mdf sheet is known to absorb sound (+/- 1 inch/22 mm), you can buy it impregnated for damp open outside.
That green fiber sheets that you put under laminated floors, would that be something???, carpet(synthetic!)
Those where my shots in the dark, i hope someone can shed some light on the targets or reveal a other target.

A picture tells more than a thousand words.

20200609_080333.jpg
20200609_080142.jpg

20200609_080224.jpg

Any thought, advice or comment is appreciated on this experiment and sound.
Thanks in advance, best to all

Ps i am able to make tracks in every configuration/ curve ect thanks to temp-lot2, i can produce in my molds ca 10 meters/33 yards a day, easy.
For the cost of a total of 1,20 euro, I can make 1,25 meters/4.2 yards: incl putty(bought), azobe wood(bought) and (homemade) wood stain, .
On the pictures is ruffly 45 meters of track(sorry i am a little proud of this achievement)
 
A friend of mine is using 25mm Celtex Insulation Sheet under his track (used in UK for walls etc), with roofing felt in top of that. I see you are using Particle Board, the roofing felt will help preserve that, even external grade will deteriorate over time.
E750AFB1-51B0-47A9-9D0B-6143A60473E4.jpeg
You should just about be able to make out the rise at the front where this has been laid on a paving slab. Also note that your wooden base will make quite a bit of noise, acts almost as a speaker box.
 
As Jon say's the OSB will act as a 'sounding board.. - I also do not think you will get anything like 10 years from OSB, unless it is covered with roofing felt. Then it will start to fail where-ever there is a fixing through the felt.

For indoor 'layouts' insulation boards of various types have been used quite successfully. BUT, you can't walk on them! ;)

You are rightly-proud of the amount of track you have/can build.. :clap::clap:


If you were to plant something like Lonicera, the foliage would help to absorb some of the noise. But a full-size train will rumble along as well!

PhilP.
 
PhilP said:
As Jon say's the OSB will act as a 'sounding board.. - I also do not think you will get anything like 10 years from OSB, unless it is covered with roofing felt. Then it will start to fail where-ever there is a fixing through the felt.
PhilP.
Click to expand...
Yup that is what I dound when I dismantled my last line in 2012, where there had been fixings the OSB was well trashed, surprised it lasted the time it did but I reckon it was around the 10 years that Phil says.
 
dunnyrail said:
You should just about be able to make out the rise at the front where this has been laid on a paving slab
Click to expand...
This sentence i dont understand, sorry about that.
Paving slab, as the concrete tiles for your drive way or path thru the garden? put those under the tracks to make them more silent?

dunnyrail said:
25mm Celtex Insulation Sheet
Click to expand...
I process around 8 to 10 km2 per year at 4 to 6 inches (10 to 15 cm) thick...It is my main income!(professional certified insulator) Next "table" will only have wooden support on the pvc pipes and pir sheets attach to that
I would never ever thought of this!:clap:

I have some time this week, time to work on some silence and rule out the speaker box.
 
justme igor said:
I have some time this week, time to work on some silence and rule out the speaker box.
Click to expand...

Anything that will 'stiffen' the sheets of OSB will help..
It will move (vibrate) most, the furthest from where it is supported / fixed. - Think edges, flapping up and down..
 
PhilP said:
I also do not think you will get anything like 10 years from OSB, unless it is covered with roofing felt. Then it will start to fail where-ever there is a fixing through the felt.
Click to expand...

I will not using osb for the long run, first experiment a bit, for fixing the track i am planning to put a sealer putty on the places where i am going to use the screws.
I mark where the screw is coming, put sealer between the felt and the sleeper/tie, plus some in the pre drilled hole from the sleeper, if the base will be wood.
10 cm/4 inch thick pir sheet cut into pieces of 20 inch/ 40 cm can hold a lot if the support is right, and it must be because that hedge needs trimming....

PhilP said:
If you were to plant something like Lonicera,
Click to expand...
You would be surprised what is planted 25 meter down the line.....
Thanks
 
The pvc is placed length wise at 2 yard 60 cm intervals and width wise 16 inch/40 cm intervals, 16 inch/40cm deep driven into the dirt.
20200609_104941.jpg
I used very old wood, with in the back of my head that before next year it will be changed, so far i like this system, only need to plan and think of other materials as mentioned in the first post.

Thanks!
 
Sand - loose sand!

your pipes under the structure will work like drums. fill them with coarse sand. (filtersand for swimmingpools)

and use the same loose sand between the ties/sleepers. in the pics you can see, what i mean.
outside the ties make dams. whatever the material. styrofoam or wood, or else. glue some sand upon them, for looks. then fill the space between the ties with loose sand.
(the colour i got by dry-mixing the sand with black powder-toner for cement)


 
justme igor said:
This sentence i dont understand, sorry about that.
Paving slab, as the concrete tiles for your drive way or path thru the garden? put those under the tracks to make them more silent?


I process around 8 to 10 km2 per year at 4 to 6 inches (10 to 15 cm) thick...It is my main income!(professional certified insulator) Next "table" will only have wooden support on the pvc pipes and pir sheets attach to that
I would never ever thought of this!:clap:

I have some time this week, time to work on some silence and rule out the speaker box.
Click to expand...
No the Celtex is in top of the paving slab just seen and that is raised on block work to make a track bed roughly 2’6” high. And yes the paving slabs are former garden path ones. These make nice wide track bases.
 
The basic principle of sound reduction in a board situation is that the heavier the board, the less sound transmission there will be.
If you used 25mm thick marine grade ply (not exterior quality) you will have little sound transmission especially as Korm has said, you fill all the support pipes with coarse sand.
marine grade ply will last more the time p years - a former member of this site used it and it was still sound after 12 years.
 
Wood to me increases sound levels, take for instance a wind up music box and place it on a rug, then on a wood table. Big sound difference.
 
Yes a music box designed to be thin and resonate will be louder... just as the wood in a guitar and a violin are thin.

Wood dampens sound like any solid, although it can be designed to resonate at certain frequencies.

Sand works because the sound tries to vibrate the grains and they eat up energy moving around and using energy with friction and acceleration.

Greg
 
In addition, for live steam, consider using a Summerlands chuffer. This substantionaly increases the chuff sound, which will help drown out other noises.
 
Michael said:
consider using a Summerlands chuffer. This substantially increases the chuff sound
Click to expand...
Now that is a good chuff sound and for a very reasonable price!

What i also was thinking of to maximize the width of the (wooden) sheet to 40 cm(not osb) place drywall sheet on it and cover with roofing feld or epdm pond foil.
Incl sand into the pvc pipes.
I think this will silence everything and with almost to non background noise(speaker box, drum).
Thanks for the tip.

Best.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom