Newbie advice on track control

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leeandoona

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Hi everyone. I'm FINALLY :o ready to commence building my railway after a few interruptions (birth of 2nd and 3rd children, new business etc etc). I've got a plot approximately 20ft by 12ft in the back garden situated next to the patio and the conservatory and also next to my back garden pub. I'm planning to have a reasonable sized pond (lake?) incorporated into the layout and I'm going for something along the design of a Highland Narrow Gauge railway like the Welsh Highland Railway or Festiniog. Anyways, I figured that when I dig the pond I'll have enough soil to create a reasonable sized 'mountain'/rockery and I'm now planning an approximate track layout. Like I say, I'm really a total newbie so currently all I've got is various lengths of second hand track (mostly brass) and a couple of manual points plus my only engine which is an LGB starter set and the one power pack controller for the train/track.

I need advise on how to wire this all up in order to 'automise' the running of trains on the track when it is a 'straight line' design and not a 'circuit'. Largely the reasons for this design are to maximise my track length based on what i've got at the moment but also because I can't seem to come up with a design that simulates a highland railway trip up the mountain and back down again using a circuit design without compromising on size of the layout and available track. Plus I rather like the idea of (eventually) having my engine pull its load up to the other terminus and then decouple to change its direction and pull the load back down again like the real thing. In other words I don't want it to pull the load one way and then push it back again like it's just reversing. I'm happy to perform operating this manually whilst actively playing trains but also it would be great to have all this going on automatically so I can sit and watch because at the end of the day, I'm lazy. ;) Ultimately I will expand the line further around the garden when track funds and wife planning permission allows but again I see it as a point to point type of line or at best a returning loop style once it's gone a bit further. My goal for now though is to have my one engine start out, reach it's destination, then return (pulling) back again. Perhaps if I get another engine I would then like to have one leave as another arrives or maybe have a passing point along the route but again with as much realism as possible in direction of travel.

So while I have great ideas on how I want it to look, I've not got a clue how to set this up at all!! ??? I've got one of David Pratt's books "from the ground up" which touches on the subject of reed switches and A/C circuits and diodes but I'm finding it hard to get any practical instructions or guidance on how to actually set up these circuits and indeed what things I need to perform this decoupling/recoupling maneuver, changing of points and stopping and restarting the engine automatically nor where I get it from. I've watched the Mark Found garden railway programs quite a bit but the episode on power still isn't giving me any real step by step tutorial on how I wire this all up and what things I need. I gather I need to power my track (which I've got) but then I need to power all these accessories such as buildings lights and points plus the as yet unknown things I need to use to make the automatic point to point running. I think I need a list of things that I'll need and where to get them or how to make them?

I've got very little by way of budget so I've discounted the the computerised/radio controlled operation and I have a kind of old school way of thinking and tinkering anyway so don't fancy setting up programs to run my trains. I'm very mechanically minded but electrics are like a dark art to me! Any advice on what I need to buy/make to make all this happen?

Thanks and sorry for the long waffling rambling post (which is a bit like I want my railway to be!) :D
 
You might want to look at this thread if you are interested in options for automation.

https://www.gscalecentral.net/index.php?topic=299945

You can do a lot with analogue/DC but for more sophistication you need DCC as a starting point, then you have many PC / software control options available to you.

Have a read then please come back with your thoughts or questions.
 
Just re-reading your question I see you don't want a computer based solution. So you can use magnets fitted to locos and reed switches in the track to trigger points and signals using ready-to-run (off the shelf) kit, and you can buy ready-to-run auto-reversing (auto-shuttle) controls none of which requires DCC. So that's the simple option. Some of the online instruction leaflets for the items in question show the wiring required, and you can download those without buying the kit to get a feel for what's required. I'll add a few links in a minute.
 
Here's a link to the LGB shuttle unit manual I mentioned:
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/7/pdf/10340_betrieb.pdf
Please note there is a new version 10345 but I could not find the manual for that.

Also manual for the points which shows how to motorise:
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/7/pdf/12000_betrieb.pdf

And point motor switch which shows how it can be automated
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/7/pdf/12070_betrieb.pdf
 
idlemarvel said:
Here's a link to the LGB shuttle unit manual I mentioned:
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/7/pdf/10340_betrieb.pdf
Please note there is a new version 10345 but I could not find the manual for that.

Also manual for the points which shows how to motorise:
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/7/pdf/12000_betrieb.pdf

And point motor switch which shows how it can be automated
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/7/pdf/12070_betrieb.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, I've read through and it makes reasonable sense (I think actually using it will make more sense).

I'm a bit fazed by how the shuttle unit would work in conjunction with automatic points AND the decoupling device. I'm assuming the sequence of events is like this:

>>>TRAIN>>>>PLATFORM>>>>>DECOUPLED>>>>>ENGINE>>>>>TRIGGER TURNOUT TO BRANCH>>>>>>STOP AT SHUTTLE BUFFERS>>>>>>REVERSES>>>>>ENTERS BRANCH>>>>>>TRIGGERS TURNOUT BACK AGAIN>>>>>>>PASSES PLATFORM>>>>>TRIGGERS TURNOUT TO MAIN LINE>>>>>STOP AT BUFFERS>>>>>>MOVES FORWARDS>>>>>ENTERS MAIN LINE>>>>>TRIGGERS TURNOUT BACK TO CLOSED>>>>PLATFORM>>>>>>RE-COUPLES (ENGINE NOW BEHIND CARRIAGES)>>>>>?????NOW HOW DOES IT TRIGGER THE SHUTTLE SEQUENCE BACK ALONG MAIN LINE WITHOUT DE-COUPLING/CRASHING INTO BUFFERS???

Train Arrives at platform and carriages/wagons are decoupled; engine continues and as it passes turnout it triggers the turnout to change ready for the reverse passed manouver; shuttle unit slows and stops engine at buffers; engine reverses after elapsed time and now enters the empty siding via the opened turnout and moves past the carriages/wagons now on the opposite platform (now at this point I'm confused) ???

How does the engine now re-enter the main line and re-collect it's carriages before moving off? Am I right in thinking that it must have a further shuttle buffer and turnout so that it passes the turnout and triggers it to change to connect to the main line while the engine continues to further shuttle buffers? If that's right then I don't see how the decoupling device would work with the shuttle on the re-couple/shuttle trigger? This is what I mean by how I need some kind of step by step guide on how to actually make this work?!?

I'll try and draw it out and upload it I think as its confusing trying to explain what I think I mean! :-\
 
[quote author=leeandoona link=topic=301893.msg360027#msg360027 date=1441050211]
I`m a bit fazed by how the shuttle unit would work in conjunction with automatic points AND the decoupling device. I`m assuming the sequence of events is like this:
[/quote]

You may not need automated points and uncouplers.

LGB manual points (or similar) can be set to spring back to a preset direction and an LGB manual uncoupler may be left in the raised position.

For example each end could consist of a platform road and a run round road. The approach point would be set for the platform road and the end point for the run round.
A train would enter the platform, the first coupling, that between loco and train, would open and the loco only proceed over the far trailing point. The loco would force the blades over and they would then spring back to the loop. When the loco reverses it would take the loop line then reverse again after passing the approach point which springs back to the platform road.


 

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Using sprung points is a good idea. I think the uncoupling might be a step too far. Assuming the train was going slow enough for the uncoupler to take affect without stopping, you would then have the loco moving on without the carriages, going to the end, coming back over the passing loop, and back to the beginning. The question is "then what"? If the loco proceeds using the auto-shuttle it will collide with the carriages left at the platform. IMHO if you want to feature automated shunting you will need some kind of computer control. The alternative is to envisage some kind of "push-pull" train, or DMU, that does not require uncoupling.
 
What Neil descibes above with uncouplers and sprung points is very much like the arrangement on part of the small LGB layout that used to be amongst the exhibits at the RH&DR's model exhibition back in the early 1980s. It had a bell-push for kids to operate the sequence. It worked very reliably, I remember the satisfying rumbling and clunking next to where I sat when I was looking after the exhibition as one of my summer jobs on the railway. I've not been back for a few years but it was still there last time I visited!
 
Neil Robinson said:
You may not need automated points and uncouplers.

LGB manual points (or similar) can be set to spring back to a preset direction and an LGB manual uncoupler may be left in the raised position.

For example each end could consist of a platform road and a run round road. The approach point would be set for the platform road and the end point for the run round.
A train would enter the platform, the first coupling, that between loco and train, would open and the loco only proceed over the far trailing point. The loco would force the blades over and they would then spring back to the loop. When the loco reverses it would take the loop line then reverse again after passing the approach point which springs back to the platform road.
Click to expand...

That's very clear now, thanks for the diagram and a great suggestion for the use of the sprung points! :) The final part is the bit I'm still a wee bit unclear on though (I may just be being a bit thick). Wouldn't the loco reverse off without the train once it has passed through the run round and returned to the approach point/main line? And/Or would it not push the train onto the buffers on its next return to the approach or is there a device that stops this happening once it's recoupled????
 
idlemarvel said:
The question is "then what"? If the loco proceeds using the auto-shuttle it will collide with the carriages left at the platform. IMHO if you want to feature automated shunting you will need some kind of computer control. The alternative is to envisage some kind of "push-pull" train, or DMU, that does not require uncoupling.
Click to expand...

That's the bit I'm stuck with exactly! The then what scenario is exactly what I keep thinking would happen (unless I'm missing a key bit?!?). I'm afraid I really don't want to go down the computerised track control road and the push pull train would not really fit with my welsh highland theme for this line unless I invest a lot of money into a suitable loco and dummy car and I've not seen many of these so far that would fit the theme, certainly not any in my budget anyway. However, I think it's potential scenario to try and aim for if I can find a loco and dummy that match the theme and are within budget. I had hoped to try and have the shunting thing happening though to provide more excitement and interest as well as keeping it looking like a realistic working representation. Am I aiming too high for my first attempt do you think? :-[
 
I'm confident that various solutions that meet your requirements are out there.
I don't think that there's one best quick and easy one though.
My suggestion was made in the hope of simplifying part of a possible solution.
 
I did it with spring points and uncouplers, but I did have to drive the loco....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGSD45IraEU
 
That looks great! Thanks for the clip.

I've been doing some rather elaborate plans for the track layout (for a newbie) and I think I may opt to incorporate a returning loop for when I want to have it all running without 'driving' and then do just as you have done for when I'm actually in the driving seat! The stumbling block I keep hitting with the automated method is when the loco returns to collect the train as it seems impossible to do this without either the loco not stopping or the train hitting the buffers. I think I need to set up a test track to try and get it working as best as possible.
 
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