The straight is a simple 600mm straight hard wood connection. The corners is a lot shorter length of wood & i might put a flat metal bracket underneath for some extra support.
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Hi Chris,
You wrote me "The straight is a simple 600mm straight hard wood connection. The corners is a lot shorter length of wood & i might put a flat metal bracket underneath for some extra support.".
I used the same combination of a metal bracket underneath some sort of softer plastic plate material. I found out that it was very well possible to use easy to apply popnails for the connection as long as you keep the expanding side of the nail at the metal bracket side.
In your case you probably have to drill first a bit wider hole in the top layer that give room to pass the whole popnail and the popnail pulling device.
Next you drill the hole for the nail in one go in both the plate and the metal bracket below and after that you put the popnail in the hole and use a heavy duty popnail pulling device (see photo) to pull the popnail untill the nail breaks. At that moment the connection is tight and fixed.
It saved me a lot of work using this easy popnail solution.
If you want to remove a nail you just drill a hole in the top of the nail untill the flat part comes loose from the nail and you remove both parts.
I hope this can help you to finish your project more quickly.
Gerard
You wrote me "The straight is a simple 600mm straight hard wood connection. The corners is a lot shorter length of wood & i might put a flat metal bracket underneath for some extra support.".
I used the same combination of a metal bracket underneath some sort of softer plastic plate material. I found out that it was very well possible to use easy to apply popnails for the connection as long as you keep the expanding side of the nail at the metal bracket side.
In your case you probably have to drill first a bit wider hole in the top layer that give room to pass the whole popnail and the popnail pulling device.
Next you drill the hole for the nail in one go in both the plate and the metal bracket below and after that you put the popnail in the hole and use a heavy duty popnail pulling device (see photo) to pull the popnail untill the nail breaks. At that moment the connection is tight and fixed.
It saved me a lot of work using this easy popnail solution.
If you want to remove a nail you just drill a hole in the top of the nail untill the flat part comes loose from the nail and you remove both parts.
I hope this can help you to finish your project more quickly.
Gerard
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Please note , I have built a substructure of plastic wood, and it expands a lot in the summer. I built the track in the summer and everything fit. Now in winter, the rails in the lay bends so at the edge of the track that safe operation is not possible. I will now install rail pieces with length compensation at the beginning of the bends.
https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/andreas-railway-or-the-new-west-clare-railway.316291/page-2
Andreas
https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/andreas-railway-or-the-new-west-clare-railway.316291/page-2
Andreas
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Hi, I have been warned on this & hopping to lay the board before any warm weather. But will give a 4mm gap on each 3 metre board if laid in the cold to allow for expansion.
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Plus one on
Greg Elmassian
and
Andreas
:
It is better to use shorter pieces instead of longer pieces, this will make it able to do more expansion gaps that are staying smaller
This dekking "wood" expands a lot, i dont know exact how much but I recon a minimum of 10mm on a 3 meter piece with a temperature difference of 40C (cold winter high summer) is quickly achieved.
This is not including full sun on it, aka absorption of heat.
My advice would be (if possible) use pieces of 1 to 1.5 meters each with a 3mm expansion gab in between.
Now in the Netherlands(where we are?) it is pretty cold? cut of a piece of 1 meter exactly, place it outside, after a cold night measure it again.
Place that same piece in the full sun, in a wind free corner, measure again, this differnce is the expansion room you are looking for *2.
Or more scientific:
cut a 50 cm piece (with a cold measuring tape, minimum 2 hours in the cooler) that was on room temp.
Put this one in your small freezer ~-10C, after 6 hours or so measure it with a cold (cooler temp) measuring tape.
Set your oven to +60C wait for the heater turns off, place the piece in there.
After 30 minits or so repeat, but take it out before the heater kicks in and place it back after the heater is turned off.
Measure again with you cold measuring tape.
The differences you have now wil make it able to make a temperature table, for placing and spacing when you want to build in your garden, with any outside temperature.
My two cent, for some food for thought.
Best Igor
Greg Elmassian
and
Andreas
:It is better to use shorter pieces instead of longer pieces, this will make it able to do more expansion gaps that are staying smaller
This dekking "wood" expands a lot, i dont know exact how much but I recon a minimum of 10mm on a 3 meter piece with a temperature difference of 40C (cold winter high summer) is quickly achieved.
This is not including full sun on it, aka absorption of heat.
My advice would be (if possible) use pieces of 1 to 1.5 meters each with a 3mm expansion gab in between.
Now in the Netherlands(where we are?) it is pretty cold? cut of a piece of 1 meter exactly, place it outside, after a cold night measure it again.
Place that same piece in the full sun, in a wind free corner, measure again, this differnce is the expansion room you are looking for *2.
Or more scientific:
cut a 50 cm piece (with a cold measuring tape, minimum 2 hours in the cooler) that was on room temp.
Put this one in your small freezer ~-10C, after 6 hours or so measure it with a cold (cooler temp) measuring tape.
Set your oven to +60C wait for the heater turns off, place the piece in there.
After 30 minits or so repeat, but take it out before the heater kicks in and place it back after the heater is turned off.
Measure again with you cold measuring tape.
The differences you have now wil make it able to make a temperature table, for placing and spacing when you want to build in your garden, with any outside temperature.
My two cent, for some food for thought.
Best Igor
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Hi, i got to admit i am not sure on going down the rout of cutting sections at 11.5deg & making a corner & worrying about expansion in a hot the summer. "We do occasionally get them in the UK" lol. The allowance for plastic/composite decking is 4-6mm depending on temperatures. Now i thinking of going back to the original & more forgiving fan shape corners, like the image below. It will allow for more expansion.Plus one on
It is better to use shorter pieces instead of longer pieces, this will make it able to do more expansion gaps that are staying smaller
This dekking "wood" expands a lot, i dont know exact how much but I recon a minimum of 10mm on a 3 meter piece with a temperature difference of 40C (cold winter high summer) is quickly achieved.
This is not including full sun on it, aka absorption of heat.
My advice would be (if possible) use pieces of 1 to 1.5 meters each with a 3mm expansion gab in between.
Now in the Netherlands(where we are?) it is pretty cold? cut of a piece of 1 meter exactly, place it outside, after a cold night measure it again.
Place that same piece in the full sun, in a wind free corner, measure again, this differnce is the expansion room you are looking for *2.
Or more scientific:
cut a 50 cm piece (with a cold measuring tape, minimum 2 hours in the cooler) that was on room temp.
Put this one in your small freezer ~-10C, after 6 hours or so measure it with a cold (cooler temp) measuring tape.
Set your oven to +60C wait for the heater turns off, place the piece in there.
After 30 minits or so repeat, but take it out before the heater kicks in and place it back after the heater is turned off.
Measure again with you cold measuring tape.
The differences you have now wil make it able to make a temperature table, for placing and spacing when you want to build in your garden, with any outside temperature.
My two cent, for some food for thought.
Best Igor
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Hi Phil, i have got 36 poles Postcreate'd in the ground & have just finished another 21 holes. "Time for a cupper" Got about another 25 to do over the next day or so & its then another 46 bags of Postcrete. "That, luckily enough is just a couple of bags over what my trailer will take" On the gap, i agree with 3mm. But the clips they supply wouldn't give you any expansion width ways. But will leave a space anyway.
Also, the fan shape can also be made i little wider as i have a few different makes of track that can differ a small bit on the radius & will be a bit more forgiving..
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That's the easiest way, it's lasted on my layout for a few years. I just covered it all with roofing felt, to stop any ballast falling through. It actually gives the "sort of" look of fine ballast anyway
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Yes that is the way to go, as
PhilP
was stating leave a 3mm gab between. for longer strait pieces i should do max 1 meter sections with 5 in between.To connect those strait pieces i would fill the space inside allow them to slide, what also could be done is a piece that would allow movement like a kitchen drawer.
As i would do 1 meter sections i would only do IF the expansion between winter and summer is more then 3mm per meter.
IF the expansion is 3mm per 2 meter sections i would go for that.
I would urge you to "test" the expension with heat and cold.
With best regards Igor
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I think we are over thinking this expansion thing. My 2/3 curve made from 8 * 2 wood had LGB R3 curves on not pinned down but with track clamps. If the wood moved not noticed and did not cause any issues as the track could float on the felt the wood was topped with. Perhaps the wood moved about under the felt but still no problems. However with composite decking it can be an issue with 2.4 metre lengths, but perhaps if cut into baseboard widths from the length again I forsee few problems.
That section has now been revised due to vegetation nuisance and is now a rockery with paving slabs mounted on bricks and building blocks. Track glued up with ballast still no problem.
That section has now been revised due to vegetation nuisance and is now a rockery with paving slabs mounted on bricks and building blocks. Track glued up with ballast still no problem.
I'm a little unfortunate that i live in an open area near the top of a hill & can get some strong winds. "Yes we have a hill in Norfolk" lol. So things will have to be screwed down with some allowances. So, with track & decking expansion i will hold things down with a slot. We can only help with expansion & see how it goes.
Yes Chriss I know the hilly bit in Norfolk quite well having a friend living in Nrth Elmham.
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Ah! know it. Used to regally go to a clay shoot at Beeston, only a mile or two from there. Is that the area that has a bit of private railway line.??
Yes the line is intact to County School Station where a miniature railway formerly at Holt has moved to. There is a short break of rails between North Elmham Station just north of the level xing to about a mile south of County School. Mid Norfolk Railway based in Dereham working but slowly to get to North Elmham next then County School. North Elmham is to grow massively in the next few years with big house building proposals likely taking away much of the countryside in the area.
Activist want to get a circular line round from Norwich using the trackbed and part of the M&GN for a very useful Railway that would likely take 4 decades to build with current climat. never a thought of building to get people used to public transport for the workers then house owners first, we don't do that in England. By then we should be onto ’Beam me up Scottie’ transport.
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