New Li-Iion battery technology

dunnyrail

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Is like having two battery powered drills? one in use and one on the charger Hmmmm?:banghead::banghead::banghead:
This has been discussed for cars, trucks and forklifts etc. but no one has been able to make it work as yet, as the battery is such a large element in the cost of the vehicle and is normally not easy to remove.
 

PhilP

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A report of a Road Traffic Accident, and 'fuel - spill' will take on a whole new meaning, when it refers to several thousand batteries rolling around on the motorway!
:eek::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 

beavercreek

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Electric cars with onboard photocell tech will develop commercially, (there has already been photocell cars for years), to have the upper surfaces covered in high efficiency photocells to give trickle charging while you drive or park up and they will probably be made to look prettier too.
Meanwhile there will be the continuing roll out of fast chargers (compatible for a few years with the need for older cars with slower battery charging requirements), to specific sites like on motorways and just outside city centres but due to the fast pace of change in battery technology and speed of charge, it is a brave company that invests in charging sites before a consensus in battery tech is established (charging wise).

Hybrid cars have two 'interesting' fire scenarios on board in an accident.
Not only is there double the risk of something untoward happening, fire wise, in a major shunt (also with a possible combination of the two power sources), I feel for the emergency services who have to tread even more carefully when dealing with the scenario.

Hydrogen cells will also increase with ordinary consumers especially with the production of safe home or commercially sited catalytic converters generating the hydrogen.
Meanwhile trains, buses and trucks will be the first to take hydrogen up on a widespread basis as it is easier to have the hydrogen delivered ton bulk to central hubs and the vehicles have the space on board for storage for the amount required for long journeys. Of course there will be need for hydrogen stops on motorways and main arterial routes

We are looking at a few years before we see the need for fossil fuels decrease as, although the government has given a year when new fossil fuel cars will not be made anymore, there are so many vehicles on the road already that need those fuels.
The cost for electric cars especially the larger ones for families, those who live in the country and need 4x4, and those who travel widely (not at the moment of course!) is going to stay high, for a few years yet, due to the cost of the batteries themselves.

People at the lower and lower-middle income thresholds tend to buy second hand cars, due to their cheapness, and those cars have maybe done a good few miles so that will have to be factored in to future transport plans.

Let's hope it doesn't become an elitist society with only those who can afford electric cars have the privilege to have a vehicle and everyone else has to use public transport..or maybe that is the way that the world will have to go for some time (much like when the first cars were introduced and it took Henry Ford to bring cars to the masses).

There is one other elephant in the room concerning batteries... replacement.

At the moment an electric car (or hybrid) battery has about ten years of life depending on how it is used and how it is 'looked after'.
The refit costs a pretty penny so if you buy a second hand electric/hybrid car (after it has been owned for let's say 7 years) you are possibly looking at a big bill on the horizon. Again this will affect the lower middle to lower paid...
For electric cars to become the replacement for our fossil fuel jalopies all aspects of owner ship, rental, lease purchase, battery replacement etc etc will have to be sorted.
 

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The main issue with all fuels is energy density. Petrol, diesel and nuclear all have very high densities, while battery packs and hydrogen fuels not so much. This limits the size of the battery vs range and this therefore defines the charging infrastructure required.

At the moment, we seem to have a couple of differing systems, relatively slow charge AC - up to 32A for home and 50KW at commercial sites and fast charge DC - 150Kw for Teslas only. If this changes, the supply infrastructure can remain, with just the chargers themselves requiring updating.

Battery fires are rare on EVs, but once they start, they take a lot to put out. They tend to burn quite slowly due to the battery construction, so they can be controlled, but actually extinguishing takes forever, as they have the capacity to self ignite once damaged and exposed to air.

I completely agree that we are heading for "Vehicle Poverty", as the supply of older electric cars will become performance limited very quickly. Public and shared transport solutions need to be invested in to keep all the population mobile.
 

dunnyrail

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Electric cars with onboard photocell tech will develop commercially, (there has already been photocell cars for years), to have the upper surfaces covered in high efficiency photocells to give trickle charging while you drive or park up and they will probably be made to look prettier too.
Meanwhile there will be the continuing roll out of fast chargers (compatible for a few years with the need for older cars with slower battery charging requirements), to specific sites like on motorways and just outside city centres but due to the fast pace of change in battery technology and speed of charge, it is a brave company that invests in charging sites before a consensus in battery tech is established (charging wise).

Hybrid cars have two 'interesting' fire scenarios on board in an accident.
Not only is there double the risk of something untoward happening, fire wise, in a major shunt (also with a possible combination of the two power sources), I feel for the emergency services who have to tread even more carefully when dealing with the scenario.

Hydrogen cells will also increase with ordinary consumers especially with the production of safe home or commercially sited catalytic converters generating the hydrogen.
Meanwhile trains, buses and trucks will be the first to take hydrogen up on a widespread basis as it is easier to have the hydrogen delivered ton bulk to central hubs and the vehicles have the space on board for storage for the amount required for long journeys. Of course there will be need for hydrogen stops on motorways and main arterial routes

We are looking at a few years before we see the need for fossil fuels decrease as, although the government has given a year when new fossil fuel cars will not be made anymore, there are so many vehicles on the road already that need those fuels.
The cost for electric cars especially the larger ones for families, those who live in the country and need 4x4, and those who travel widely (not at the moment of course!) is going to stay high, for a few years yet, due to the cost of the batteries themselves.

People at the lower and lower-middle income thresholds tend to buy second hand cars, due to their cheapness, and those cars have maybe done a good few miles so that will have to be factored in to future transport plans.

Let's hope it doesn't become an elitist society with only those who can afford electric cars have the privilege to have a vehicle and everyone else has to use public transport..or maybe that is the way that the world will have to go for some time (much like when the first cars were introduced and it took Henry Ford to bring cars to the masses).

There is one other elephant in the room concerning batteries... replacement.

At the moment an electric car (or hybrid) battery has about ten years of life depending on how it is used and how it is 'looked after'.
The refit costs a pretty penny so if you buy a second hand electric/hybrid car (after it has been owned for let's say 7 years) you are possibly looking at a big bill on the horizon. Again this will affect the lower middle to lower paid...
For electric cars to become the replacement for our fossil fuel jalopies all aspects of owner ship, rental, lease purchase, battery replacement etc etc will have to be sorted.
There is a very interesting 3 page article in the February 2021 Tramways and Urban Transit that is well worth a read if you can get to see a copy. Points out that EU has published a 30 year Hydrogen strategy in July 2020 all to be produced from renewable solar and wind, makes our little efforts pale into significance. But perhaps we may get there some time.
 

beavercreek

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Sounds interesting Jon.
Yes the EU will be forging even more ahead of us on the renewables and alternative energy source front. Even more so now we are casting our links and ties away.
The ones who wanted it that way will say that we now can do even better than the EU as we are totally independent of them.. double speak for we will not...
 

dunnyrail

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JimmyB

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I only watched the Merc battery fake add, this was so funny that it should be in humor. :devil::D
What that was fake, that's a shame I've ordered 10,000 AA batteries (a couple spare just in case.) ;)