Navigator Controller 2.4Ghz upgrade.

Nodrog1826

Professional Idiot
21 Nov 2013
8,898
2,690
United Kingdom
Best answers
0
Country flag
At the risk of repeating a thread elsewhere, I seeking advice on the above.

What are the advantages/disadvantages over the older wireless version, is the remote range improved, etc..

Whilst I know what kit is needed re both my navigators and receiver, and it's going to be a fair wedge of gelt (money) depending on your view.
The but is the need to update the navigators firmware to 2.whatever first, and I am on two versions of 1. whatever, now the last time I did a firmware upgrade resulted in me making a right balls up of it, and that was via the internet and a lap top.

Times have moved on, and I am not sure if I can still do things via the www, or do I need one of those PC modules that i believe require a load transformer or just the USB pen drive kit?
 

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
33,289
3,487
Nottingham
Best answers
0
Country flag
muns muns would be best qualified to answer this..

I have not had to access the Massoth site for a-g-e-s..

PhilP
 

John Russo

Registered
24 Sep 2015
195
21
66
PA
Best answers
0
Country flag
You can update it with the free Massoth Service Tool.

Instructions: https://www.massoth.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/991085_BDA_MST_1510_EN.pdf

Download link: Massoth Service Tool – Massoth Elektronik GmbH


You will need either one of these:

The old one: Massoth 8175001 DiMAX PC Module (Interface)

The new one: https://www.allaboutlgb.com/massoth%20dimax%20pc%20programming%20module.html

I get by with this one from LBG but it will not allow the sound updates: https://www.trainz.com/products/lgb-55045-digital-pc-decoder-program
 

Attachments

  • Picture1.png
    Picture1.png
    42.9 KB · Views: 0

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
Staff member
GSC Moderator
25 Oct 2009
25,876
4,941
75
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Best answers
0
Country flag
Have to say my Massoth not been updated since last done by Glendale. It still works fine with all of my admittedly older locomotives. Me youngest DCC being the odd Marklin and Train Line 45 (TL) offerings though the TL offerings are now battery DCC but I can still use Massoth to update Cv’s should the need arise. I would stay where you are Gordon, if your setup goes belly up a gold second hand ine would cost considerably less than a new one. As for Radio, my Handsets all have the extended range wireless receivers fitted, they have a ‘rats tail’ hanging out and the range when still using DCC in the garden was fine over 100ft. Well worth hunting out second hand ones (or new old ones) if you have range problems.

BUT beware the current Massoth handsets do not work on the older Massoth units, my pal in Somerset has found this out the hard way.
 

Loco

Registered
24 Oct 2009
669
17
Vestfold
Best answers
0
Country flag

Gizzy

A gentleman, a scholar, and a railway modeller....
26 Oct 2009
35,908
2,220
63
Cambridgeshire
www.gscalecentral.net
Best answers
0
Country flag
Massoth offers the extended radio range R/C Transmitter EU Pro with up to 100 m range as an add-on to the older non-2.4GHz euro Navigators.
As far as I know this will give a better range for the old R/C Navigator compared to the new 2.4GHz Navigator.

I couldn't get one of those in the UK a couple of years ago?

I'll have to make enquiries to see if they are available over here....
 

Diesel2000

Registered
18 Feb 2020
191
19
Chicago
Best answers
0
Country flag
If the question is is the 2.4ghz upgrade worth it the answer is no. Massoth wanted to standardize the wireless protocols worldwide and moved to this system (which is BLE) and pretty much bungled the whole thing. It took 2+ years to get the 2.4ghz issues mostly resolved, but i would not say the range is much improved and the connection is difficult and somewhat limits the portability of NAV to different receivers/systems.

Until your FM components no longer work I would not bother with the 2.4ghz hardware and 2.1 software version. If you are looking for increased range then it *might* be helpful to upgrade to 2.4ghz, but I would only recommend to do it if there is a specific problem to solve..
 
Last edited:

Loco

Registered
24 Oct 2009
669
17
Vestfold
Best answers
0
Country flag
I couldn't get one of those in the UK a couple of years ago?

I'll have to make enquiries to see if they are available over here....
Massoth has re-released the transmitter this year. If you want to order, you should do it now not to risk it goes unavailable.
 

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
33,289
3,487
Nottingham
Best answers
0
Country flag
Especially as we do not know what the result of the financial restructure will be..

PhilP
 

Brixham

No buffers were hurt at this sign
27 Aug 2010
1,477
110
Best answers
0
Country flag
Never having been to your fantastic looking layout, but seen it in pictures on this forum, I’m guessing you may be having range issues with navis at the furthest extent of your line. I’m also guessing that your radio ‘reciever’ Is in your concrete building, or even inside your home.
One way to solve this is to move the reciever to be in the middle of your layout.
The reciever ISNT weather proof, so if it was housed in a plastic box, and on a long bus cable so it can be run out when you have a running session, that may give better navi operation.
I have read that a ground plane ( a rectangle of tinplate or steel ) under the reciever helps, and the plug in aerial is vertical( I’ve seen them horizontal )

A second option would be to have a second reciever, your original is for operation close to your shed, and a second frequency could be used with a remote reciever as described above for operation at the extremity.

Option one is a low cost low risk plan.....you just need a long bus cable

I’m with many others suggestion to stick with your older navi radio kit. If firmware updates will give you new functionality that you must have, then update. Otherwise if you have version 1.8 ish as some of mynavis are, and you don’t have visiting navis or take yours elsewhere, keep it as is.

Malcolm
 

dunnyrail

DOGS, Garden Railways, Steam Trains, Jive Dancing,
Staff member
GSC Moderator
25 Oct 2009
25,876
4,941
75
St.Neots Cambridgeshire UK
Best answers
0
Country flag
Some interesting points from Brixham. As said my Navis and Central Station (all pre 2.4Ghz) were in my dry shed at the bottom of the garden. But the Rx was sited on the window frame thus with the extended range Tx I had no problems with signal over my 100ft longest possible transmitter site. Sans the extended Tx update the signal was variable at best over that length.
 

Nodrog1826

Professional Idiot
21 Nov 2013
8,898
2,690
United Kingdom
Best answers
0
Country flag
Ok thanks for the info.

Whilst i have a minor issue in connection of a loss of control, if I stand at a certain place at the far end of the railway, which is easily solved by not standing there. :)
But I am considering moving the receiver to another position.

I am looking towards initially doing software upgrades as it's been a while since I attempted any and I suppose the assumption that the older frequency will become redundant and not supported by updates at some point.

There is also the what if or when the navigators need to be replaced at some point, as i guess they have moved over to the new frequency.
But also the program module may make my disaster prone software upgrades easier, and I may be able to look at settings rather than reading CV's and guessing.

I suppose the first rule of engineering applies, if it's working leave it alone.
 

PhilP

G Scale, 7/8th's, Electronics
5 Jun 2013
33,289
3,487
Nottingham
Best answers
0
Country flag
I suppose the first rule of engineering applies, if it's working leave it alone.
To a great extent, yes!

Unless you have such old software that you can't access the higher functions, and you want to use them..
But this involves upgrading the software in everything.. Including the Central Station. - Possibly the receiver as well, there was (I am pretty sure) an update for that as well?

PhilP
 

Nodrog1826

Professional Idiot
21 Nov 2013
8,898
2,690
United Kingdom
Best answers
0
Country flag
To a great extent, yes!

Unless you have such old software that you can't access the higher functions, and you want to use them..
But this involves upgrading the software in everything.. Including the Central Station. - Possibly the receiver as well, there was (I am pretty sure) an update for that as well?

PhilP

The last time I updated the receiver was in 7th of November 2014, as i stuck a date label on the side, so it's probably due a re visit.
 
Last edited:

LGB333

Active Member
TRADER
15 Feb 2015
681
43
McLean Virginia
www.olddominionrailways.com
Best answers
0
Country flag
Especially as we do not know what the result of the financial restructure will be..

PhilP
Massoth seems to be doing okay financially and hopefully overcomes its challenges in today's highly volatile market. I received last week their Dealer Newsletter which I share in part with you here: "We are pleased to inform you with our first News 24/02 about current innovations. Despite the special circumstances Massoth will continue to operate as normal. Production, sales and service are available as usual. Development and production of new products are also continuing. In a few weeks there will be more news about our product range. We are particularly excited that our Switch Drive EVO-S has been nominated for the "Golden Track 2024" award."
 

Loco

Registered
24 Oct 2009
669
17
Vestfold
Best answers
0
Country flag
That is good news.

When it comes to the extended range transmitter for the old Navigators, I wrote that anyone wanting to buy one should do it before it comes unavailable. This is because Massoth initially informed that it would be a limited re-run.
 

Gizzy

A gentleman, a scholar, and a railway modeller....
26 Oct 2009
35,908
2,220
63
Cambridgeshire
www.gscalecentral.net
Best answers
0
Country flag
Massoth has re-released the transmitter this year. If you want to order, you should do it now not to risk it goes unavailable.
Thank you, I've made enquiries with one of my trusted retailers here in the UK....
 

Wilco

Swiss G scale
24 Jul 2015
51
9
NL-Gelderland
Best answers
0
Country flag
At the risk of repeating a thread elsewhere, I seeking advice on the above.

What are the advantages/disadvantages over the older wireless version, is the remote range improved, etc..

Whilst I know what kit is needed re both my navigators and receiver, and it's going to be a fair wedge of gelt (money) depending on your view.
The but is the need to update the navigators firmware to 2.whatever first, and I am on two versions of 1. whatever, now the last time I did a firmware upgrade resulted in me making a right balls up of it, and that was via the internet and a lap top.

Times have moved on, and I am not sure if I can still do things via the www, or do I need one of those PC modules that i believe require a load transformer or just the USB pen drive kit?
Hi,

I've posted on this in:

And there are more threads on it.

In short, I wouldn't recommend upgrading to 2,4 GHz BLE.

If you are happy with the performance of the EU 433 MHz transmitter and receiver, then stick to it.
The 2,4 GHz BLE system gives you less range and more issues.

Yes, you can extend the range with the EU plus transmitter for your Navigator, which almost doubles the range.
Good thing about it is that Massoth produced a once only batch of them recently.
Friends of mine in Germany already got theirs.
So be sure to get one.

In the UK you should also get them at:

As for firmware updates, you will need the Massoth MST update software.
With that you can either update the firmware of your components with your Massoth central station or the Massoth PC module.

Latest firmware:
- Navigator 433 MHz: 2.00
- Receiver EU 433 MHz: 1.90
- Receiver EU II 433 MHz: 2.10

The 2,4 GHz BLE Navigators can only be used with the solid fitted 2,4 GHz transmitter.
And of course only with the matching 2,4 GHz BLE receiver.
Before that you could exchange the transmitter, because it had a connector.
That's not the case anymore, since it is soldered to the pcb.

The 433 MHz Navigators were becoming a rare and much sought item.

That finally dawned on Massoth too.
So in their Newsletter 2024/02 they announced that the Navigators will be refitted with a socket for the transmitter, which can either be used for 433/900 MHz or 2,4 GHz BLE.


It maybe a sensible thing to get a spare EU 433 MHz receiver.
Since Massoth isn't offering this as a rerun item.

Best regards from the NL,
Wilco
 
Last edited:

Wilco

Swiss G scale
24 Jul 2015
51
9
NL-Gelderland
Best answers
0
Country flag
There a two ways to enlarge the range of the 433 MHz radio system:

- Place an aluminium plate of 20x20 cm under the receiver
- Place the receiver with the antenna upright
- Get the EU plus 433 MHz transmitter

The aluminum plate option also works for the 900 MHz US version.
And the EU plus transmitter option is only available for 433 MHz.

Massoth:
Before the newsletter 2024-02 it was listed as a limited once only production run offer.

Not sure if that has changed with the new 2024 version of the Navigators, where the transmitter can be exchanged again.
Since the texts on their website are not up dated yet.

So best order one if you want one.
A spare part is nice to have too.

As for the Navigators, the new version is listed under the same productnummer as the former one with the non exchangeable transmitter.
An unpractical habit of Massoth with other products too.
 
Last edited:

beavercreek

Travel, Art, Theatre, Music, Photography, Trains
24 Oct 2009
17,704
705
Colchester, United Kingdom
www.facebook.com
Best answers
0
Country flag
I have a couple of the 'older one-box central station' massoth setups (one used for the layout and one for the workshop which is a distance form the layout).
I have two rat's tail navigators and one non-ratty one.
The last time that Muns updated my navigators was about 5 or 6 years ago.
Could someone tell me what is the current software version for the 'older' type of navigator and the one-box central station.